Would you like an in-game parser?

[Mycow8me]

Most of the talk I see from the pro parser community correlates to weeding out bad players, saving time, lowering frustations... etc... Very rarely do you run into an actual conversation promoting parsers as a tool for self improvement which is the only conversation I actually care about in regards to them. I feel like for this reason they ultimately are their own enemies and fuel the very people they are against.

Non party, (in game) self parsers would not hurt anyone and just give people an idea where they stand, something to look at improving constantly every fight, and a goal beyond just "clearing". They could be toggled or a simple game settings checkbox. There's no reason to be against this kind of thing other than wanting to deny someone else a tool that you don't feel like using yourself for a chance to improve. That's all I want to bring back to this table.

[Taika]

Most of the talk I see from the pro parser community correlates to weeding out bad players, saving time, lowering frustations... etc... Very rarely do you run into an actual conversation promoting parsers as a tool for self improvement

Really? Your reading is very selective. Here's a few examples just from the first 3 pages (on my settings) of this thread:

Yes I would lik one. I would like to know if I'm where I should be on my DPS.

Yes please, I would like to play my AST at my maximum capacity on an official level ^_______^

Yes, I would like an in-game parser. I want to better myself as a player for the various types of content that I do, and a parser would be among one of the many things to help with that.

I would like to see where my dps goes up or down so I can improve without having to ask someone on PC to run a certain piece of content with me just to see.

i support a personal parser. I'd like to see if changes I make to my gear or rotations are positive changes or not.

Of course parsers are also needed to show the group DPS issues in the content where group DPS matters (enrages), and obviously people talk about that too, but a lot of the discussion is also about self improvement (and group improvement! you can't fix issues if you don't know where they come from).

[Mycow8me]

Really? Your reading is very selective. Here's a few examples just from the first 3 pages (on my settings) of this thread:

Sorry taika, I'm not bothering with you this time around but feel free to disagree.

[Sebazy]

Sorry taika, I'm not bothering with you this time around but feel free to disagree.

There's been plenty of examples in the healer forums with people mulling over logs to provide help and advice, you often see this on reddit too.

Remember that the 'fight club' rules surrounding parsing makes people a little wary about discussing matters around it even when it's in an entirely positive manner.

[HyoMinPark]

Sorry taika, I'm not bothering with you this time around but feel free to disagree.

There is no “agree to disagree”. Anyone who has actually read the parser discussions on here knows that a lot of people comment about wanting one because they want to know how to self-improve, and the self-improvement argument is one of the largest arguments people make FOR parsers. Please read the threads in full instead of only reading what you want to read next time you want to contribute to a topic. It will help further your own arguments that way.

[kikix12]

Sorry taika, I'm not bothering with you this time around but feel free to disagree.

Many times the people that are "pro-parser" start mentioning the "weeding out" is in response to posts that argue that players will get flamed for doing tragically low DPS, and that even they doing less than their combo have the right to clear content without being poked at for not doing a thing you need just one finger for correctly. Sorry, but if the anti-parser crowd brings up an argument, it's clear that the other people will talk about it, too.

I know that having parse will fix this issue in the long run. But it will cause a lot of harassment and kicks because people can be vocal about it. Less skilled players will try to avoid DF/PF and this is not good for queue time or self-improvement.

If it would be the DPS that would avoid the queue, then it would actually be very good for the queue time. There is a massive excess of DPS caused by various things, and anything that would remove those excess DPS would speed up queue times. And if the ones left would mostly be the ones confident in their ability to do at least averagely, then the content would be cleared faster.
Then again, everything here is set behind duty finder, really, so people WILL use it, whether it'll cause them gripes or not.

Also, sorry, but anything short of high-difficulty content is not going to provide a lot of self-improvement. Reason for that being that those are group-based duties and unless your performance have a major impact on them individually, there is little you can gain from them. A tank or a healer have more opportunities to get better, but DPS do not. Even if they will fail, the group will still go past it. If they don't care about doing the content fast, why would they think they need improving?

What is necessary to improve is a SOLO content that is DIFFICULT, thus trying the individual player, where it is all about his skills (or lack of them thereof). A very difficult content can lead to wipes due to a single persons failure as well, but the responsibility is being hazy often, and when it's not, then it's due to mechanics that don't help getting better DPS either (like dodge this or stand there).

People can argue that adding a parse will help. Well, It will be more of a shock when a dps sees that he is competing with a tank.. and it is shown publicly to everyone. No one wants to look bad.

Yes, no one wants to look bad (actually, there are some people that do, but there are quite many that just don't care). That's why they will try to get better once they see they do poorly. It's called a "shock therapy". It's used in many situations, and so long as it's done properly, it is the quickest and most effective way to get better. The drawback is clear however that people with certain social or mental issues, like social anxiety or depression, may go the other way around. But hey. The first one is what I have, and I begun playing MMO's and begun participating on forums to try and get over it (or lessen its burden), which I managed to a certain degree. The latter is something that requires medical attention as well. No one will help anyone unless they try and help themselves first.

[Zeonsilt]

If it would be the DPS that would avoid the queue, then it would actually be very good for the queue time. There is a massive excess of DPS caused by various things, and anything that would remove those excess DPS would speed up queue times.

The large reason that people play DPS also: when they perform bad, they can blame other DPS, Healers or whatever and get away with it.

As a DPS player, i'm all up for faster derps queues! \o/

The drawback is clear however that people with certain social or mental issues, like social anxiety or depression, may go the other way around.

I'm pretty sure that those people don't raid Savage content, aside from few examples. They should be save in EX Primals, Expert Dungeons, Normal Raid Dungeons, 24-ppl Raid /etc. No one will point fingers at people in those instances.

p.s. They can also form a party themselves with rules like "no rage, practice party 1st time" etc.

[Yeol]

sorry, but anything short of high-difficulty content is not going to provide a lot of self-improvement...

Where exactly in my post did I specify which content I want to be more difficult (Less brain dead)?
I said it in a general term. As in everything needs to be considered, from solo content to group content.

... no one wants to look bad ... That's why they will try to get better once they see they do poorly. It's called a "shock therapy"... it is the quickest and most effective way to get better. The drawback is clear however that people with certain social or mental issues, like social anxiety or depression, may go the other way around.

I understand what you are saying but sadly I rarely see this happening in-game.
I'll give you an example. When someone is failing mechanics a lot or not using some of their skills/abilities and gets called out for it. What do you usually see them do?
They either, defend themselves or rage quit. You'll rarely see someone apologizing and willing to learn. We even have a popular topic about these encounters in the forums.

So letting people know that they are doing something bad isn't always going to make them want to improve. Not with the 'you don't pay my sub' mentality.

By making parse public we will improve in the long run, but we'll go through a very harsh phase where kicking dead weight is allowed. Which is what the dev team don't want. Thus why they are trying to close the gap between good players and bad players first.

[kikix12]

Where exactly in my post did I specify which content I want to be more difficult (Less brain dead)?

Well, many people that have issues and actually need to improve themselves just won't do the difficult content that they could improve in. This game is very casual friendly, and that have both its ups and downs in that respect.


I said it in a general term. As in everything needs to be considered, from solo content to group content.

I understand what you are saying but sadly I rarely see this happening in-game.

Yes, unfortunately. However, that is partially because they know that even if that one party won't finish the duty with them, the next one will, or the one after that. If they had little option but to get better or get locked out, they would actually try to get better, even if just enough to "pass" the "basic effort" the parties would expect.

As I said, it may have many bad effects for certain people, but there are many bad effects for certain people with how the way it is now as well. And the way that most people are held back, often without even knowing that, is even bigger problem.

[RiyahArp]

Yes, unfortunately. However, that is partially because they know that even if that one party won't finish the duty with them, the next one will, or the one after that. If they had little option but to get better or get locked out, they would actually try to get better, even if just enough to "pass" the "basic effort" the parties would expect.

No, I don't think that would work. The problem is that "git gud" process of everyone kicking them would be unpleasant enough to make them quit before getting gud. No one is forced to keep playing this game, and simply making things unpleasant for someone doesn't make them want to self-improve.