Would you like an in-game parser?

[Kaurie]

Before i start i'd like to say that so far you're the only one worth replying to, then i'd like to point out that these forums are indeed a bad place as stated in both in-game and reddit, it goes as follows:

- Someone disagrees with your ideas, gets burned alive
- People make an argument, others take it personally
- People skip arguments when they have nothing to counter them, or start going around in an attempt to dodge the argument
- People rarely read a big post, then they post one liners or whatever they can make an argument out of it leaving whatever they can't argument against behind.
- People find someone disagreeing with them and will like any post that's made against that person whether they have a point or not.

I completely agree, it is common that people get a little too emotional when someone disagrees with them.

Then can you explain me how i was taking aggro from Tanks as Monk in Binding Coil when there were no parsers (that i'm aware of)? Yes, tank aggro was buffed in a patch but i was the only one getting aggro in the static, i don't think i could possibly know if my DPS was good or not besides getting that aggro.

It again sounds as if you think that I am saying a parser is a pre-requisite to learning your class. I am not saying this. I am saying that a parser is a tool that can be used to augment your learning and improve your play. Undoubtedly, you learned how to play via trial and error - whether you realized this or not.

I never said everyone was bad, i simply said parsers won't make players much better.

You literally said, "What basically you're saying is that everyone was bad before parsers were made available, please."

How can you expect people to learn from parsers, parsers don't teach them rotations, guides or other players do.

People can learn from parsers via trial and error and receiving feedback. That is essentially how people learn everything in their life. You don't need someone to teach you something in order to learn. That said, having a parser could also provide feedback to see if you are properly performing what has been taught to you.

Yeah ok, they do 1-2-3 and get 300DPS, now what?

Do you expect them to go from 1-2-3 to 15 button pressers by looking at the parser numbers?

It's not going to happen, from here they have two choices, they can go read/watch a guide and do some testing and/or they can start pressing more buttons.

The numbers might tell them that their DPS is bad, but no way they're going to become much better just with the numbers parses give them, looking at parsers advanced statistics is useless as well because those people probably don't have much clue on what they mean (yet).

I feel this is a simplistic way at looking at it. A parser will not 'teach' something to a player, and will not convert a bad player to a good player overnight. What it will do is accurately show how subtle changes to what you are doing affect your DPS.

Reading guides while using a parser makes sense, but expecting someone to learn a proper rotation from a parser doesn't, they will have to either do like me and a lot of people and read tooltips and follow logic, and from there test again, afterwards if they feel like they aren't doing enough for what they want they can go read a guide.

Sure it does, you said yourself that you can read tooltips to logically create a rotation. If say you are doing something you are familiar with and then read the tooltips and go, hey wait a minute, doing this might be a DPS increase -> makes adjustment, parser goes from 80 to 75.. Oh I guess that didn't work better. You continue making these iterative tests and you see your 80 DPS go up to 100, instead of down to 75.

I bolded a part above, because that is precisely my argument. You make these adjustments with tooltips and 'logic' and then test. Your test is completely useless without feedback to show you how things changed.

Well i'm sorry you read that like that, i apologize, wasn't my intention, but please don't make it look much worse than it is.

No problem, if I was truly offended, I would have left the conversation. Thank you for the apology.

Can't comment on that, i simply read the statement made by someone a few pages page, but that's good to know.

Indeed, you need to experience it I guess. I have played WoW on and off, and in heroic dungeons and in looking for raid (expert roulette and weeping city equivalents), no one cares if you do poor DPS. I've been in groups where I am doing (#'s made up, as it's been a month since I played), 350k DPS, the hunter will do 300k DPS and the mage will do 80k DPS. No one says anything and we all just finish and go home. In mythic dungeons, I once saw someone giving a Warlock a hard time for low DPS, but they did not kick the warlock. It wasn't very friendly, however. It's only in harder content do they actually require higher numbers.
That said, I am sure there are people who are rude in Heroics and mock people's DPS, but they are few and far between.

On this i can agree, especially in Savage, and especially by looking at stats in the parser itself, such as auto attacks, uptime, crit values etc

But the thing is, people want the parser for themselves so they can see their DPS and also expect other players to become better with it, and it's here that this isn't actually true, i already explained why, but going to add on it, people get better with both parser and guides, but then the try Savage and their DPS isn't enough even for first turn, and their gear is at least enough for 3rd turn (this is just a sample scenario i'm creating), so what went wrong?

They either didn't follow the guide, didn't test SSS or dummy rotation (SSS is still better than normal Dummy because after 3m mark some Jobs can repeat their burst and thus increase their DPS).

I'm strongly in favor that people should help bad players to help them become better being with or without parser.

People can learn without a guide, btw. However, people with a parser can still player poorly, and people without a parser can still play well. Parsers will not make everyone great. What it will do is provide feedback, so that people can naturally learn and adopt better practices.

I don't know how you got to this conclusion and i'm sorry that you did, maybe i explained myself wrong, i simply like SSS for the reason mention above, 3m mark so people can't get a new burst to increase their numbers, obviously in a Raid scenario they can do this, not going to question that.

But that's what dummies are for, to test rotations and perfect them and gain experience from it without being interrupted, so that then people can give Savage a shot while having an idea if their DPS is enough for that specific turn.

I came to that conclusion, because your argument against a parser is that you learn from reading a guide. Yes, you can learn from a guide, but that is irrelevant to whether a parser is helpful. I think that the SSS has its uses, but not everything can transfer. I often need to alter my rotation and/or opener as a Summoner, based on how soon a jump is coming. For example, I'll throw out painflare to quickly get DWT so I can spam Ruin III and Deathflare prior to a jump, rather than hitting fester twice and then letting Aetherial stacks drop during the jump. Having real time feedback can show how these adjustments affect my overall DPS.

Yes i already got that, what you don't seem to get is that my point besides the possibility of toxicity towards bad players is that the parser alone won't make bad players good players, the parser won't teach them a rotation or remind them that they need to press more buttons.

I strongly believe that the concerns over people kicking players in non-raid content, for having low dps, is unjustified