Would you like an in-game parser?

[RobbieH]

Out of curiosity. The SMN you just mentioned, would you feel justified in kicking them?

I didn't start a vote kick, does it answer your question?

At least one DPS was dead every round by falling, then sometime during adds a tank would fall too.

We were able to get past dragons with one DPS dead and SMN spamming Ruin 2, but then the Healers died for some reason and we wipe.

No vote kicks were started, but someone did start abandon and it ended.

For the record i got in by joining party in progress.

I am going to say it again, that isn't necessarily true. I've seen SMN AoE with 1000 DPS, and most melee can easily outdo 1000 DPS in single target damage. I used SMN here, because obviously they are the best at AoE - it's worse with other jobs. While yes, of equal skill, a person doing AoE will gain over single target, the issue is that you don't see people of equal skill in DF.

You're talking about something different than what i was mentioning, you didn't understand what i was saying or anyone in previous page for that matter.

I said there are gains, which there are even if the rotation is poor.

You're taking it as if they'll become the best DPS with the buffs or that the damage will increase a lot, this is NOT what i said, when you apply a Damage Buff what does it do? It increases damage, minimal increase or not is still an increase.

And without a parser it's the best bet to use on the best AOE dps Job when taking down adds because you don't know if they used Quelling Strikes or simply messed up their initial rotation, is that simple.

if you already use a parse, since you're posting numbers then you shouldn't be complaining about my point to begin with because without a parser you don't know numbers and you can't judge if it's the Dragoon or EOS that's doing better AOE DPS at all even by looking at Hate bar because each skill generates different amounts of hate (that's why i have to QE when doing opener as Bard or tank loses hate) and in an AOE situation is even harder to tell.

[Kaurie]

You're talking about something different than what i was mentioning, you didn't understand what i was saying or anyone in previous page for that matter.


I said there are gains, which there are even if the rotation is poor.

You're taking it as if they'll become the best DPS with the buffs or that the damage will increase a lot, this is NOT what i said, when you apply a Damage Buff what does it do? It increases damage, minimal increase or not is still an increase.

And without a parser it's the best bet to use on the best AOE dps Job when taking down adds because you don't know if they used Quelling Strikes or simply messed up their initial rotation, is that simple.

if you already use a parse, since you're posting numbers then you shouldn't be complaining about my point to begin with because without a parser you don't know numbers and you can't judge if it's the Dragoon or EOS that's doing better AOE DPS at all even by looking at Hate bar because each skill generates different amounts of hate (that's why i have to QE when doing opener as Bard or tank loses hate) and in an AOE situation is even harder to tell.

Eh, you replied to me. If we are talking about different things, than that is your issue.

There are not necessarily gains, if the rotation is poor.

I honestly, don't understand what you are arguing in the 3rd sentence. I am saying that an AST will want to place a buff on someone doing 3k DPS over someone doing 2k, because they get the most out of it. Being able to see those numbers helps with that. Making assumptions like

• Highest on Threat Meter
• MNK/BLM single target
• SMN AoE
• Someone is actually doing some sort of AoE with multiple mobs

Are unhelpful in actually determining quickly, easily and confidently that you are applying your buff to the highest DPS player. You may very well be, but you may not be. A parser would make this easier, faster and accurate.

Hate meter on AoE is also not useful, as naturally your primary target will generate more hate.

"And without a parser..." ... that is the point. A parser would make this better. Is it possible for an AST to buff the highest DPS right now? Yes. That doesn't mean that it is easy or quick for them, or that they can be confident in their decision.

[RobbieH]

snip

What i don't understand is why do you care if you already use it.

Does it bother you other AST don't know who to apply the buff to?

It bothers me way more that they actually use it, do i care? No, it would only bother me if it was in End-Game raiding, but in this case people already use a parser for the most part anyway.

And no one should care about these buffs in DF or Normal Alex to begin with, it helps, is it required? No.

I disagree with in-game parser because the community would turn on each other and would be a toxic fest.

Just because AST could benefit from it is not nearly enough reason to add it to the game.

[Kaurie]

What i don't understand is why do you care if you already use it.

Bothers is a stronger word than I would put it.

I think that a parser would be good for the community. Not having one is not good for the community. I don't lose sleep over it, however.

I think a group parser could help people, while leveling and learning their class, test and see how doing certain changes to their rotation would improve their DPS. This would result in people playing better upon reaching max level. They could then continue to use a parser during grouped content at max level to see how they are comparing to others, and work to improve if they are falling noticeably behind. I also promote providing a better UI to give the player the best possible information to play their job to the best of their ability. The threat meter is great for showing who is approaching taking over threat from the tank - why can a DPS meter not be used to assist an Astrologian.

I care about buffs in all content - including leveling dungeons, nevermind expert or Alex normal. Having something be required, and caring about it are not the same thing. It's not required that I say hello at the beginning of a dungeon, but I care when people do it. It's not required that a tank holds agro in an expert dungeon, but I care when they do it. It's not required for healers to DPS in a dungeon, but I care when they do it. - and so on.

"I disagree with in-game parser because the community would turn on each other and would be a toxic fest." - in reality, this is already the case. Some people will be jerks with or without it, and parsers don't turn people into jerks. That said, I respect your opinion.

Note: I do not play AST, it is my least favourite healer.

[RobbieH]

I think that a parser would be good for the community. Not having one is not good for the community. I don't lose sleep over it, however.

I think a group parser could help people, while leveling and learning their class, test and see how doing certain changes to their rotation would improve their DPS.

How is a group parser going to help someone leveling? That's the most dumb thing i've ever read so far in this thread.

People don't learn their class looking at numbers, people learn their class by reading the skill tooltips, and from there use their logic, that's how i've learned and most people learned.

What basically you're saying is that everyone was bad before parsers were made available, please.

Not to mention there's plenty of guides, being them video or written, no Parser is going to make someone better than reading/watching a guide (exception for people who already know their Job for the most part and want to test openers).

They could then continue to use a parser during grouped content at max level to see how they are comparing to others

Yes this is why people want a group parser, so they can shit on bad players and get away with it for the sake of epeen, when they're not that good themselves.

What would happen if someone was doing bad DPS:

- Get shit on
- Get kicked

But wait, there's a group parser, so why aren't they good already? Wasn't it meant to help bad players become better to begin with?

The only time i felt the need to read a guide for Ninja was during 3.2 when i couldn't beat the A8S dummy, was failing at 3%, which is what full party buff is and would be met while inside A8S, but i still wanted to get it down since it's possible, so i went to read guides and found out that the Opener was somewhat wrong.

Then i proceed to test the new opener, still wasn't enough, so i proceed to reddit and people told me my crit was too low, end of story.

I didn't use a parser to learn my Job, i'm not special, why would other people need a parser to learn their Job?

[Frowny]

Bleh

Have the posts mentioning a personal parser for just you and MAYBE a group one for Savage fly over your head?

[RobbieH]

useless comment

Yes because i'm CLEARLY replying to those posts.

He clearly said "group parser" while leveling, hence why i proceed with my comment on that.

Why bother post nonsense?

[Kaurie]

How is a group parser going to help someone leveling? That's the most dumb thing i've ever read so far in this thread.

I thought I made myself clear, that the parser would help you realize how changes to your rotation affect your DPS. Just because the numbers are 60 vs 80 doesn't mean you're not doing 33% more damage. It's a great feedback tool to tell you how you are doing as you level.

People don't learn their class looking at numbers, people learn their class by reading the skill tooltips, and from there use their logic, that's how i've learned and most people learned.

People learn by trial and error. You use logic and tooltips to think up ways to adjust your rotation and then you use feedback from a parser to determine if it made a difference.

What basically you're saying is that everyone was bad before parsers were made available, please.

Considering you are advocating using logic, this is a fairly illogical conclusion. I am advocating that parsers will help the general community improve. Having the ability to improve doesn't mean that everyone is bad. That said, the vast majority of DF players do play poorly.

Not to mention there's plenty of guides, being them video or written, no Parser is going to make someone better than reading/watching a guide (exception for people who already know their Job for the most part and want to test openers).

This likely depends on the player, the content and their current level of skill. It's also an odd argument as the two are not mutually exclusive. I am fairly certain plenty of players who watch guides also use parsers.

Yes this is why people want a group parser, so they can shit on bad players and get away with it for the sake of epeen, when they're not that good themselves.

It's interesting you have this perspective, as between the two of us, you're being the jerk. In this post alone, you've insulted me by calling me dumb, saying I'm stroking my epeen and have made several other negative assumptions about me. Yet, between the two of us, you're the one advocating for no parser and I am advocating for a parser.

What would happen if someone was doing bad DPS:

- Get shit on
- Get kicked

-You notice and improve
-I notice and offer advice
-We both notice and ignore it

Just so you are aware, every single person who is seen doing poor DPS in games like WoW are not kicked, or even mocked. The vast majority is simply ignored.

But wait, there's a group parser, so why aren't they good already? Wasn't it meant to help bad players become better to begin with?

There isn't a group parser, or are you using your previous comment where you provide 2 sample scenarios as the only possible scenarios of the future as evidence for an argument?

The only time i felt the need to read a guide for Ninja was during 3.2 when i couldn't beat the A8S dummy, was failing at 3%, which is what full party buff is and would be met while inside A8S, but i still wanted to get it down since it's possible, so i went to read guides and found out that the Opener was somewhat wrong.

Then i proceed to test the new opener, still wasn't enough, so i proceed to reddit and people told me my crit was too low, end of story.

I didn't use a parser to learn my Job, i'm not special, why would other people need a parser to learn their Job?

That is great for you. In a way you did you use a parser, the SSS, to determine your level. A parser would provide this feedback in all content. That way you could see how things change throughout. It would provide feedback as you are learning your class. It would provide your AST feedback to know who to buff - and so on.

It kind of sounds like you think that a parser would replace SSS, video guides, written guides and so on. These are not mutually exclusive.