Would you like an in-game parser?

[Reinha]

Probably not, which is why this is doomed from the get go. To give something with no restrictions attached, people will not be civil or treat it correctly. You'd have to have one with the other. Though you're right, they won't. So this will eventually just cause a lot more harm than the good it could do. Which sucks a bit in the end.

The best way to do it would be to give everyone a choice. A choice to parse the group if it's a premade, a choice to parse ourselves everywhere, a choice to not be parsed in DF and a choice to see which premade groups are using the in-game parser -> a choice to avoid them or join them.

This could be done by making it an option in the duty settings (only available to toggle for premades), and it would cause no need for extra moderation or limitations by SE because those who are not happy reporting a parser douche bag after the fact can take the initiative and avoid the chance of bumping into them in the first place (external parsers would be redundant so their use/abuse would be extremely rare). It's the perfect compromise but people like to take away choices from others which is why these threads spiral into arguments.

[Jynx]

Said choices would also fragment an already anti social community even further.

As much as people say they wouldn't mind that it would not take long until we started seeing more threads about how you can't get a group because of x y z.m

[MeiUshu]

...

I am in total agreement with you I have always said the same since the word *parser* was whispered back then. Today it is used by people but there is the sanction to be expelled from teh game if you use it to demean others or use it to shame others, which goes along with your idea to have strict rules attached to it BUT they need workforces to enforce those rules and as we saw on a daily basis is not like that is something SE will do. Creating rules is easy living up to it is a bit less.

Parsers are a bad idea as a public tool, as a personal tool I can live with that. Each are free to do what they want when it relates to themselves personally ergo a personal tool. This community has already no feel as a commnuty unless by interest, I would avoid adding something that will further enlarge the gap between various layers of the player base.

[Velhart]

The best way to do it would be to give everyone a choice. A choice to parse the group if it's a premade, a choice to parse ourselves everywhere, a choice to not be parsed in DF and a choice to see which premade groups are using the in-game parser -> a choice to avoid them or join them.

This could be done by making it an option in the duty settings (only available to toggle for premades), and it would cause no need for extra moderation or limitations by SE because those who are not happy reporting a parser douche bag after the fact can take the initiative and avoid the chance of bumping into them in the first place (external parsers would be redundant so their use/abuse would be extremely rare). It's the perfect compromise but people like to take away choices from others which is why these threads spiral into arguments.

That is way too much work and pointless just to try to keep the peace.

The only real compromise with a parser is for it to be a personal one that others cannot see. The idea of an official parser is nice, but it comes with a lot of set backs and inevitable drama that SE prefers to not cause. WoW still doesn't use an official parser either (at least that I am aware of).

I think people would be better off yanking SE's arm for releasing the add-on system and let the community make a unofficial parser.

[Leigaon]

That is way too much work and pointless just to try to keep the peace....

I'm giving Reinha credit though and a like because I'll admit it's a lot to go through just to keep things quiet, yet this is the balancing act. You have the process, you have the functions and you have limitations..along with about six other things. My concern was being able to act on the misuse of it, her solution..which was given, was the list of options. This is more of an automatic monitoring rather than a free system to punish people.

With that in mind, now comes the weighing of whether these implemented features would really create a larger gap or are new threats going to come up? Nothing is perfect, but now we would have two groups in Party Finder. Those who won't parse for quicker players, or set a limit..say will parse if we fail more than three times. Then we have the probability that those who choose not to be parsed in DF get kicked. Well what if that option only shows at the end? Then someone will be back here saying they want to see things as they progress along

Sometimes, it's just best to say..no. As long as they stand by their decision not to have one this prevents people from getting upset at someone who isn't doing what they feel is optimal and kicking them. Most people don't try to cover it up or they get so upset they forget to sugar coat what they're doing.

There is good that can come from an individual official parser, I will say that...but there's also bad. I feel a bit bad about it because there are a number of those who want it because it's what they are used to and will be kind about it. In the end, the major flaw are the players..there is no patch to fix that..

The best way to do it would be to give everyone a choice. A choice to parse the group if it's a premade, a choice to parse ourselves everywhere, a choice to not be parsed in DF and a choice to see which premade groups are using the in-game parser -> a choice to avoid them or join them..

Without adding extra manpower and overhead to the GM's, I think the solution you gave is the best one. I will admit, you took my bigger concern and minimized it. Now whether the scales of it being productive by both the system and the users would be the next one, and if those possible outcomes outweigh each other. That..I don't think anyone can really answer, it would have to be put in and we would have to roll the dice. Though I'm not for parsers but I will say that's the better solution if one had to be made. Sorry to keep pushing out "what if.." but I work in a world of probability, that's my downfall...

[Velhart]

I'm giving Reinha credit though and a like because I'll admit it's a lot to go through just to keep things quiet, yet this is the balancing act.

Not really, again it is promoting diversifying people when I am sure SE's goal is to want to bring people together. I would like an in game parser as much as the next person, but it cannot be given to us with a lot of problems attached to it that SE cannot truly keep control of. It is more a community driven problem than a technical one. Just making an add-on system and let someone make an unofficial one is the best compromise I believe. It keeps responsibility out of SE's hands to an extent, not forced on the average player, and abuse is not as severe. It is how WoW deals with it and it has worked for the most part that way.

[MeiUshu]

Sometimes, it's just best to say..no.
..

this resumes all there is to say about this. I am not a diplomatic person as you seem to be Leigaon and I dont have much of hope that the average attitude of the overall majority of player base is going to be better by the introduction of a parser. As we have seen time and time again with anything that relates to interaction. People just cant work together. unless with their friends or friends by interest and when you touch such a wide variety of server, people, community upbringings age and the like ..without rules or limitation there is no way a community (any kind ) can act with decorum, until such time we see an improvement of any kind of playerbase no tool should be given to anyone, too much power without knowledge will only lead to chaos.

Just me though

[Anubis_Nephthys]

Of course; we need parsers.

[Reinha]

That is way too much work and pointless just to try to keep the peace.

The only real compromise with a parser is for it to be a personal one that others cannot see. The idea of an official parser is nice, but it comes with a lot of set backs and inevitable drama that SE prefers to not cause. WoW still doesn't use an official parser either (at least that I am aware of).

I think people would be better off yanking SE's arm for releasing the add-on system and let the community make a unofficial parser.

Way too much work how? It wouldn't be much work for them to make a parser and add some tick-boxes to duty windows.

It's not a compromise that people are forced to be parsed in all content without their consent or even without their knowledge. It's giving the pro-parser camp everything they want and the other camp no choice in the matter and no tools to avoid the possibility of parser use in their group. That's not a compromise. I have used those unofficial parsers in WoW and their use was not moderated at all. An official parser made by the devs would make unofficial parsers less common because of hassle-free use and it not being broken at the start of every patch. And since the use of unofficial parsers would be less common if not stop completely, everyone would have more control over when they are parsed. This was already posted in this thread earlier I think:



It's only diversifying/separating the people who are adamant in their play style preference (pro/no parser). This stops unnecessary drama whilst allowing players more tools to work with. Those who don't care either way can join both kinds of groups, just like it is with the other options (newcomers welcome, slow vs fast, multiple runs vs single run, item level, loot master vs need before greed vs greed only, synched vs unsynched). If dividing the community (or separating the extremes) is such an issue, why are the new loot methods and unsynch option not resisted/hated at all?

[MeiUshu]

It will create more drama nothing else not to mention that your idea contribute to divide further the community is that really what you want to do .. you desire to satisfy everybody is nice but sone more thoughts need to be given before segregating even more people from one another