Would you like an in-game parser?

[Lambdafish]

Now, disclaimer incoming, I am certainly not going to claim that I am an excellent healer by your standards. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend that in raiding situations, I am and that I find that stressful. Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance? Am I a bad healer for not using Presence of Mind to spam holy, for example? Or for not using Fluid Aura because I know it's going to kick the mob not only out of range of holy, but my black mage's flares/fire2 and my summoner's Shadow Flare?

(Disclaimer: I'm not a raid healer, so this is all second hand info, I also play SCH, and not the other healers, so I recognise that they have more intensive MP management, which can restrict DPS)

In all honesty, raid healing is a different beast to dungeon healing as a whole. You tend to have a dedicated healer who spends 100% of the time (except the odd enrage push) healing, and you have the off-healer who's job is to DPS when they can and contribute to healing when they are needed (duel tank mechanics and heavy damage output). When in a dungeon scenario, I would label the healer in the offhealer camp, healing when needed and spending the rest of the time DPSing, which isn't to say that they are a DPS, rather saying that the button that is pressed on any given GCD should be the one that will benefit the party most.

This is all off topic anyway, so I will segway back by saying that healers do not need parsers, and the devs are trying to discourage the requirement of healer DPS with accuracy limitations, but what this means is that the job falls back on DPS to pick up the slack. No role should be complacent in their job, it just so happens that a complacent DPS doesn't directly cause wipes, and that is why they seem to get a free pass, which isn't how it should be in my eyes.

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

[Reynhart]

Why do every other class need to have an accountability, while the dps have to get away? You still dont see my point.

Do you bother checking gear on every DPS when you enter a roulette ?
Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

[KarstenS]

Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

In i180, every DPS class is able to deal 1k+ DPS without being at the top end of class skill.

The "window" is not that huge as you claim.

And DPS numbers that were already not good at Lvl 50 are more bad at Lvl 60.

[Reisui]

reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers.

This is true, and happend to me once. I was in a VA run as WHM, the other healer was also WHM. Since I noticed she only healed, I asked her if it was alright if I would DPS more, and also asking our Bard to sing Foe Requim (not only for me tho, since the other groups had BLM and SMN) but he refused to sing, since my DPS was not important. The other members of the group also we're saying I shouldn't DPS as healer, and if I DPS'd they would kick me. So I only healed, but was bored because this, and our group died. I just can't concentrate if I just need to heal, since you don't need to cast all the time.

[Vespar]

Personally, I would use an in-game parser, but I don't require it.
If they made it so that after dungeon/boss fights or dummy sparring it gave you a break down of your DPS in a results window that only you could see, I think that would be okay.
Truth be told though, I am aware of SE's reasons for not offering a party-wide parser because of the fighting it could cause, but like I said, I'd be okay with it if the results were something ONLY your character could see.

[Seraphix2407]

I just have one question for you. By "any skill" do you actually mean "every skill"? I ask because it makes a difference: not using any skill can mean using no skills at all or not using one skill in particular. Every skill means, well they should be using every skill they get.

Yeah good question, what I meant was using 1 skill in particular, like DRG's not using blood of dragons, blms not using enochian. Keep in mind I know it's hard to keep up between pulls but using will still increase your dmg and help killing adds faster. Some people ignore this. Like some brds wont use their 30% dmg stance (forgot the name). Or some brds just manually cast their dots instead of re-applyin it with their new skill. Just a few examples. Glad you asked tho, so I could make myself more clear.

Do you bother checking gear on every DPS when you enter a roulette ?
Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance?

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

What he said. I want to add that there is many times both healers doesn't need to even heal at all and that leaves either healer alone to do soemthing else. I find raid amazingly fun to heal, because I was intended to heal since final coil but never happened and I was put as DPS. Now we found some cool ninja for the group so I said it's fine to go sch, because I've always wanted to try. It's perfect for me because I know how our WHM heals and it lets me do more than just dmg mitigation/healing for the group.

[Kikoten]

Gonna wait till you post proof it happens often. Im being serious btw.

That'd be difficult, considering Square Enix's stance on Naming/Shaming, and people being unwilling to post screenshots because of that. You need only look at the nature of people, and how they act on the internet. Give this a read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ly_preventing/

That's about all I can do.

EDIT: I could tell you about my few experiences I had with people whom I could have just seen using the parser as a means to harass the party, one of them being a boisterous raid leader I met while running Haukke Manor NM. The SOB treated it like a godsdamned high-end raid. Here this guy was, decked out in top-of-the-line gear, and the Dragoon in the party, who looked to be in their mid-30s, ran ahead of the party once. He stuck his nose in the air and started talking down to that person. Then about 5 minutes later, the "raid leader" initiates a vote-kick for that Dragoon, out of nowhere. I vote "No," but, of course, the Dragoon still gets kicked. I ask the "raid leader" why, and he gave me some bullshit about how the Dragoon kept running ahead of the party (despite me seeing him do it only once), and what I say doesn't matter, because I don't tank, I just sit in the back, twanging my bow (I was playing bard @ the time).

I can see someone like THAT abusing the parser system. Like I said, that was just one of few experiences I had. People in FFXIV, as well as people in just about any MMO, are douchebags. Sometimes, even the nice ones. Give someone a parser, guess what that invites.

EDIT 2: I was running Lost City of Amdapor. The PLD tank decided to remove Shield Oath after one wipe. I had to work my ass off keeping him alive, taking away my ability to DPS as much as before. After the last boss, the tank: "Nobody likes a healer who doesn't DPS." *leaves* Imagine him with an in-game parser. There are a LOT of people like him.

[Kaurie]

Personally, I would use an in-game parser, but I don't require it. If they made it so that after dungeon/boss fights or dummy sparring it gave you a break down of your DPS in a results window that only you could see, I think that would be okay.
Truth be told though, I am aware of SE's reasons for not offering a party-wide parser because of the fighting it could cause, but like I said, I'd be okay with it if the results were something ONLY your character could see.

The thing is, a personal parser would do very little to address many of the issues being discussed. For example, in the quote below...

This is true, and happend to me once. I was in a VA run as WHM, the other healer was also WHM. Since I noticed she only healed, I asked her if it was alright if I would DPS more, and also asking our Bard to sing Foe Requim (not only for me tho, since the other groups had BLM and SMN) but he refused to sing, since my DPS was not important. The other members of the group also we're saying I shouldn't DPS as healer, and if I DPS'd they would kick me. So I only healed, but was bored because this, and our group died. I just can't concentrate if I just need to heal, since you don't need to cast all the time.

- it is quite clear the party is unaware of how much WHM DPS can do, and also is unaware of how much damage Foe's helps. Having a party/raid wide parser would help them see that healer DPS is definitely significant. Here is an example: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/crbTXf...pe=damage-done On that you can see I was 10th in the raid for DPS and placed above 6 other DPS jobs. Outside of the very top DPS, I did >2/3 the damage of any DPS. It's not an insignificant contribution.

In addition to preventing ignorant comments such as threatening to kick someone who is simply trying to contribute, it may also help people realize that they are performing quite poorly. In that FFLogs, the 3 DRG's, 1 MCH, 1 BRD and 1 BLM that I out DPSd really shouldn't have had DPS that low. A parser could have told them much earlier in their gaming (while doing some leveling dungeon, or maybe a level 50 dungeon, or what-have-you) that they are DPSing less than healers/tanks. This, hopefully, would be incentive enough to have some of them work to improve. I've said it many times, but there is very little motivation to improve yourself if you don't know there is anything to improve.

Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

Agree with you Seraphix, one thing to note though is that healer and tank accountability is often capped more than a DPS. So for example, in an expert roulette boss, a tank buster will come that really only hits the tank for 75% of their HP. They can use a CD and I can shield them making it do less, but even then the tank won't die if I miss it. After we do our tank buster and shielding, there isn't really more mitigation we can do. Conversely, a DPS can meet a DPS check, but even once they have done that they can actually push more DPS. That is a key difference I think.

[Seraphix2407]

That'd be difficult

I have posted few in here and remove their names. And they are from true events. Some examples with screenshot and remove their names is fine. No name shame in that. I'm aware jerks using them too, so I dont avoid that, however you guys talk like it happens 1/3dungeons. In nearly every i join i see 50% under performers. There are more of those than pro parser harrassing. I havent seen a single proof it happens alot yet, which makes it hard to believe.

[randysquirrel]

I could tell you about my few experiences I had with people whom I could have just seen using the parser as a means to harass the party, one of them being a boisterous raid leader I met while running Haukke Manor NM. The SOB treated it like a godsdamned high-end raid. Here this guy was, decked out in top-of-the-line gear, and the Dragoon in the party, who looked to be in their mid-30s, ran ahead of the party once. He stuck his nose in the air and started talking down to that person. Then about 5 minutes later, the "raid leader" initiates a vote-kick for that Dragoon, out of nowhere. I vote "No," but, of course, the Dragoon still gets kicked.

I can see someone like THAT abusing the parser system

From your own example though, how could this guy be any more of an Ahole if a parser was added? some people are just jerks, whether there is a parser available or not. In fact, I'd even argue that it can only be a good way of maybe reigning in people like that, maybe they wouldn't be quite so vocal if we could all see their numbers as well,

I would point out though, that you use this as an example of abuse of a parser, but actually from what you've stated nowhere does this happen, he never mentioned any numbers, just kicked someone from running ahead?