Would you like an in-game parser?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Now, where did I say that? I've never once actually given my criteria upon which a healer can be considered 'great'.

[Seraphix2407]

Now, where did I say that? I've never once actually given my criteria upon which a healer can be considered 'great'.

Because you simply agree with people who talks down on people who are healers, who happens to dps. My bad, I shouldn't said that, because you haven't really given a criteria or opinion even on what a good healer is or not, but the way you agree with others.

Also you have mentioned people get kicked for not dpsing, it might have happened, but it doesn't happen often. If anything many people find healers dpsing in roulettes more welcome than those who sit there and do nothing.

I've seen more healers let tanks die when they never dps than tanks die to healers dpsing. If the healer dps the adds mostlikely die faster which leads to mitigation and the mitigation are dead adds, so the tank takes no dmg. Holy is OP too, stun is amazing and works like a mini HG for a few seconds, love it. Take my apology for putting words in your mouth, that doesn't make me any better from what I've told people in this thread earlier. I admit it, but then again, don't agree with people and make me or anyone else think you mean dps healers are bad, if anything they are better than those who sit there do nothing. Or the healers who heals in seph extreme and both have 3k mp before adds, while other people have healers who have one dpsing till adds pop and do some minimal for aoe before adds pop or simply the amazing healers solo healing the fight without any mch or brds.

Many healers overheal like crazy and that doesn't mean they do a good job or even doing the job correct. Vault is an amazing example where healers overheal and let people die if people even do the mechanics correct. Why do people die? No MP.

Gotta admit tho, everytime I join a expert roulette alone I do have a laugh because I see mechanics I've never seen before and panic and don't know how to do them hahaha.

[Lambdafish]

I've seen more healers let tanks die when they never dps than tanks die to healers dpsing. If the healer dps the adds mostlikely die faster which leads to mitigation and the mitigation are dead adds, so the tank takes no dmg.

In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

[Seraphix2407]

In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

Overheal is also part of the problem too. I just dont get some peoples logic, using medica 2 and there was never anything that even hit the party or the worse one spamming cure 2 when tank even pops cd.
The worse one is they overheal so bad they don't even have any MP for the boss or next set of adds. I don't really care what people say in here, because everyone has their opinion, but it does get out of hand when people act like it happens in every dungeon a non dps healer gets kicked from 1 out of 3 dungeons, it really is silly. The worse part is when people looks down on people who try or actually want to push their limits and do even a better job, while the lazy side, well.... ''it's just a roulette, so I don't need to use any skill I've obtained through the leveling'' ''I can do this on my own phase, theres no need to try''. People with this sort of attitude, doesn't belong in groups at all. Does it sound mean? Sure, but is it the truth? Absolutely.

[Reiryuu]

In my experience, the reason that this happens is because the non-dpsing healer is not paying attention to anything at all and is watching netflix etc. If a healer is DPSing, they tend to do that in the downtime when they don't need to heal, never letting a GCD go to waste, those are GOOD healers, and the ignorance shown by the previous posters is unbelievable.

Is it the ignorance of people that you're complaining about or their tolerance?

The worse part is when people looks down on people who try or actually want to push their limits and do even a better job, while the lazy side, well.... ''it's just a roulette, so I don't need to use any skill I've obtained through the leveling'' ''I can do this on my own phase, theres no need to try''. People with this sort of attitude, doesn't belong in groups at all.

I just have one question for you. By "any skill" do you actually mean "every skill"? I ask because it makes a difference: not using any skill can mean using no skills at all or not using one skill in particular. Every skill means, well they should be using every skill they get.

[Lambdafish]

Is it the ignorance of people that you're complaining about or their tolerance?

I was referring to those who think that healer DPS (in the case of the post, specifically SCH) is bad. In current dungeons, tanks do not take much damage, and healing 90% of the time can be handled with selene, lustrate, and a few adlos every now and then, which gives healers a lot of breathing room to DPS, and if they aren't then they are either being lazy, or severely overhealing (or both), and the posts seem to suggest that doing so is how it should be, hence the ignorance comment.

[Reiryuu]

I was referring to those who think that healer DPS (in the case of the post, specifically SCH) is bad. In current dungeons, tanks do not take much damage, and healing 90% of the time can be handled with selene, lustrate, and a few adlos every now and then, which gives healers a lot of breathing room to DPS, and if they aren't then they are either being lazy, or severely overhealing (or both), and the posts seem to suggest that doing so is how it should be, hence the ignorance comment.

First, thanks for the clarification. I didn't really see any of their comments saying healers DPSing being bad. I saw it as them arguing that Healer DPS shouldn't be their first priority; that a healer in dungeons shouldn't have to have accuracy gear and materia. Personally, I would like to even argue with you slightly in that: A healer that makes sure no one dies is an "OK" healer- they're doing the bare minimum their job requires. A healer that makes sure no one dies and contributes with DPS when available or comfortable is a "good" healer- they're doing what their role requires and then some. Your "good" healer scenario with a healer that plays at 100% all the time would then be an "excellent" healer- they're playing their class to the fullest.

Now, disclaimer incoming, I am certainly not going to claim that I am an excellent healer by your standards. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend that in raiding situations, I am and that I find that stressful. Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance? Am I a bad healer for not using Presence of Mind to spam holy, for example? Or for not using Fluid Aura because I know it's going to kick the mob not only out of range of holy, but my black mage's flares/fire2 and my summoner's Shadow Flare?

[Lambdafish]

Now, disclaimer incoming, I am certainly not going to claim that I am an excellent healer by your standards. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend that in raiding situations, I am and that I find that stressful. Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance? Am I a bad healer for not using Presence of Mind to spam holy, for example? Or for not using Fluid Aura because I know it's going to kick the mob not only out of range of holy, but my black mage's flares/fire2 and my summoner's Shadow Flare?

(Disclaimer: I'm not a raid healer, so this is all second hand info, I also play SCH, and not the other healers, so I recognise that they have more intensive MP management, which can restrict DPS)

In all honesty, raid healing is a different beast to dungeon healing as a whole. You tend to have a dedicated healer who spends 100% of the time (except the odd enrage push) healing, and you have the off-healer who's job is to DPS when they can and contribute to healing when they are needed (duel tank mechanics and heavy damage output). When in a dungeon scenario, I would label the healer in the offhealer camp, healing when needed and spending the rest of the time DPSing, which isn't to say that they are a DPS, rather saying that the button that is pressed on any given GCD should be the one that will benefit the party most.

This is all off topic anyway, so I will segway back by saying that healers do not need parsers, and the devs are trying to discourage the requirement of healer DPS with accuracy limitations, but what this means is that the job falls back on DPS to pick up the slack. No role should be complacent in their job, it just so happens that a complacent DPS doesn't directly cause wipes, and that is why they seem to get a free pass, which isn't how it should be in my eyes.

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

[Seraphix2407]

I just have one question for you. By "any skill" do you actually mean "every skill"? I ask because it makes a difference: not using any skill can mean using no skills at all or not using one skill in particular. Every skill means, well they should be using every skill they get.

Yeah good question, what I meant was using 1 skill in particular, like DRG's not using blood of dragons, blms not using enochian. Keep in mind I know it's hard to keep up between pulls but using will still increase your dmg and help killing adds faster. Some people ignore this. Like some brds wont use their 30% dmg stance (forgot the name). Or some brds just manually cast their dots instead of re-applyin it with their new skill. Just a few examples. Glad you asked tho, so I could make myself more clear.

Do you bother checking gear on every DPS when you enter a roulette ?
Considering Antitower and Amdapor are unlocked at ilvl 180 and the max ilvl you can attain is 240, it's expected to have a huge window of acceptable DPS numbers.

Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

Is it going to harm anyone if I relax a bit and go down to "good" status for content that doesn't require me to play at peak performance?

Edit: regarding your comment about "relaxing in a stressful situation". The answer to that is that you hit the best button for the situation, if you have to heal then heal, if you have room to DPS then do so. All of your buttons are there for a reason and should be recognised as such. Now obviously you don't have to use them all (fluid aura being extreamly situational for example), but at least recognising where you would use each skill is recommended (if not essential) for hardcore content.

What he said. I want to add that there is many times both healers doesn't need to even heal at all and that leaves either healer alone to do soemthing else. I find raid amazingly fun to heal, because I was intended to heal since final coil but never happened and I was put as DPS. Now we found some cool ninja for the group so I said it's fine to go sch, because I've always wanted to try. It's perfect for me because I know how our WHM heals and it lets me do more than just dmg mitigation/healing for the group.

[Kaurie]

Personally, I would use an in-game parser, but I don't require it. If they made it so that after dungeon/boss fights or dummy sparring it gave you a break down of your DPS in a results window that only you could see, I think that would be okay.
Truth be told though, I am aware of SE's reasons for not offering a party-wide parser because of the fighting it could cause, but like I said, I'd be okay with it if the results were something ONLY your character could see.

The thing is, a personal parser would do very little to address many of the issues being discussed. For example, in the quote below...

This is true, and happend to me once. I was in a VA run as WHM, the other healer was also WHM. Since I noticed she only healed, I asked her if it was alright if I would DPS more, and also asking our Bard to sing Foe Requim (not only for me tho, since the other groups had BLM and SMN) but he refused to sing, since my DPS was not important. The other members of the group also we're saying I shouldn't DPS as healer, and if I DPS'd they would kick me. So I only healed, but was bored because this, and our group died. I just can't concentrate if I just need to heal, since you don't need to cast all the time.

- it is quite clear the party is unaware of how much WHM DPS can do, and also is unaware of how much damage Foe's helps. Having a party/raid wide parser would help them see that healer DPS is definitely significant. Here is an example: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/crbTXf...pe=damage-done On that you can see I was 10th in the raid for DPS and placed above 6 other DPS jobs. Outside of the very top DPS, I did >2/3 the damage of any DPS. It's not an insignificant contribution.

In addition to preventing ignorant comments such as threatening to kick someone who is simply trying to contribute, it may also help people realize that they are performing quite poorly. In that FFLogs, the 3 DRG's, 1 MCH, 1 BRD and 1 BLM that I out DPSd really shouldn't have had DPS that low. A parser could have told them much earlier in their gaming (while doing some leveling dungeon, or maybe a level 50 dungeon, or what-have-you) that they are DPSing less than healers/tanks. This, hopefully, would be incentive enough to have some of them work to improve. I've said it many times, but there is very little motivation to improve yourself if you don't know there is anything to improve.

Not really, but when you see a guy is about 10-15 Ilvl behind another person and has weaker weapon, but does more, something wrong is going on. The dps checks exist in this game because that makes the game balanced. Healers have to heal certain aoe, tank busters, while tank has to handle them, that's where the dps comes in and needs to do their job. Imagine if every tank and healer had the same way of attitude many dps people have? Don't you think there would been alot more wipes in roulettes? I'm sure it would.

Agree with you Seraphix, one thing to note though is that healer and tank accountability is often capped more than a DPS. So for example, in an expert roulette boss, a tank buster will come that really only hits the tank for 75% of their HP. They can use a CD and I can shield them making it do less, but even then the tank won't die if I miss it. After we do our tank buster and shielding, there isn't really more mitigation we can do. Conversely, a DPS can meet a DPS check, but even once they have done that they can actually push more DPS. That is a key difference I think.