Would you like an in-game parser?

[Kaurie]

You know what might be even better for the party ? Talking.
Sharing strat so that no one would be caught "off-guard" by a "Oh, you do this that way"

talking to each other and using a parser are not mutually exclusive.

It's nice and all but it sill does not answer one question: Why do I have to be parsed because this fellow want a parser ? Why do everybody have to eat pancakes because some of us want them ?

These are entirely different - this is a cooperative team environment, where your performance directly affects the people you are paired with. If you not eating a pancake somehow caused me pain, wasted my time, or otherwise directly affected me, then yes I'd say eat a pancake. Luckily for both of us they don't (I have celiac and gluten free pancakes are gross).

That's because right now it's a banable offense(or the rumor has it). If you use a parser and don't talk about it it's all cool, even if detected chances are GMs are gonna look the other way, but if you use one, openly admit it in chat and harass another player based on it you can bet your ass it's not gonna end well.

What I find odd about this is then, really, the only bannable offense is harassment - no? Like I can't imagine that there should be more leniency to say harassing someone because of their gender/race/sexual orientation, then there would be at harassing based on DPS. Perhaps I am wrong on that.

[Reiryuu]

snip

The problem with the perception of wasted time is everyone's opinions of what is acceptable are different. 30 seconds is nothing to me, but it may be an eternity for you. If looking up a 5 minute video on some rotation plus spending minutes/hours/whatever it takes to learn said rotation, why should someone have to spend more time than they're saving you? If you're going to group together all the time that's one thing sure, but some random person you're doing a run with/meeting in DF?

As for the bannable offense, it's a violation of the ToS to use a parser.

2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

Parsing data is using a 3rd party program to collect information. Information that comes from your logs, sure, but it's still information. I am not sure what SE's stance on it officially is but my thoughts of it goes like such:Parsing isn't exactly data mining, but it is using unauthorized 3rd party software to read and interpret in game data. If people are using it for their own use and not using it to harm another's experience in the game, it's fine. Otherwise, it's something that needs to be dealt with. I'm sure you'd get warned once or twice before getting a ban.

[Kaurie]

The problem with the perception of wasted time is everyone's opinions of what is acceptable are different. 30 seconds is nothing to me, but it may be an eternity for you. If looking up a 5 minute video on some rotation plus spending minutes/hours/whatever it takes to learn said rotation, why should someone have to spend more time than they're saving you? If you're going to group together all the time that's one thing sure, but some random person you're doing a run with/meeting in DF?

As for the bannable offense, it's a violation of the ToS to use a parser.



Parsing data is using a 3rd party program to collect information. Information that comes from your logs, sure, but it's still information. I am not sure what SE's stance on it officially is but my thoughts of it goes like such:Parsing isn't exactly data mining, but it is using unauthorized 3rd party software to read and interpret in game data. If people are using it for their own use and not using it to harm another's experience in the game, it's fine. Otherwise, it's something that needs to be dealt with. I'm sure you'd get warned once or twice before getting a ban.

Again, it has little to do with the amount of wasted time. If you are going slower at any amount due to "it only matters if we finish it" then you are holding back your team for your own reasons to the detriment of your team. It is similar to a group project where you are fine with a B and someone else may be fine with an A. Maybe stop considering the grades and just realize that you are directly impacting someone else, and that should be reason enough to do your best. I respect fully that there are varying levels of skill, I won't be mad if someone slows me down by 5 minutes because they are unskilled. I will be mad if they slow me down by 7 seconds because they just don't feel like trying. To me, the intent matters a lot more than the actual occurrence - as it is a matter of respect.

To further on that note, I do not expect someone to spend hours practicing on a dummy to do well. If they want to, that's awesome. What I want are for people to realize how they are doing, so they can make that choice themselves if they want to or not. In terms of being frustrated with people, I am only frustrated with the ones that can do better but just don't because "it's expert roulette, who cares?". It's selfish and lacks respect.

As for the bannable offense note, I was adding to what the person I quoted said. I am not sure if you missed it,

even if detected chances are GMs are gonna look the other way, but if you use one, openly admit it in chat and harass another player based on it you can bet your ass it's not gonna end well.

He qualified that you would need to actually harass someone to get punished. Which makes the ToS part of the parser sort-of useless or redundant, as harassment is already a separate clause and as he said, they will turn a blind eye if you don't harass. So in effect, the only thing at play here is harassment.

[Reiryuu]

As for the bannable offense note, I was adding to what the person I quoted said. I am not sure if you missed it, He qualified that you would need to actually harass someone to get punished. Which makes the ToS part of the parser sort-of useless or redundant, as harassment is already a separate clause and as he said, they will turn a blind eye if you don't harass. So in effect, the only thing at play here is harassment.

Well, it's unlikely someone's going to report you to a GM just for using a parser, is it not?

My guess, from the context that three people rolled, one after another, that this was after a boss, therefore single target.

I was assuming that she was commenting on what was going on for the full run, not just one boss fight and she did imply that they might wipe just because the BLM wasn't using the ability.

[Kaurie]

Well, it's unlikely someone's going to report you to a GM just for using a parser, is it not?

I think you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying. I am saying that the parser is against the ToS, and that harassment is against the ToS. You will be banned for harassing someone. You will be banned for harassing someone based on a parser. You will not be banned for a parser. Therefore, the parser clause is not actually enforced and only the harassment clause is reinforced. Which makes the parser clause either redundant, incomplete, or incorrect.

[Reiryuu]

I think you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying. I am saying that the parser is against the ToS, and that harassment is against the ToS. You will be banned for harassing someone. You will be banned for harassing someone based on a parser. You will not be banned for a parser. Therefore, the parser clause is not actually enforced and only the harassment clause is reinforced. Which makes the parser clause either redundant, incomplete, or incorrect.

Um, I did quote the TOS there. Harassment is one thing. Using a parser is one thing. Using both is two "wrongs" I suppose. I, personally, have never heard of someone being banned simply for using a parser until the people just above me here mentioned it. I thought I heard Yoshida say he didn't really mind parsing so long as it wasn't abused, but I could be wrong on that and it's late here so I'm tired and my memory is failing. But they're not really redundant. One says no unauthorized 3rd party software. The other one says don't harass people and that includes things other than parsed numbers. Now, I do remember someone on either Masamune or my current server (Valefor)-- it was a long time ago and I can't remember which server I was on at the time, who got banned for being a douche and harassing some Japanese players... so I don't really get how they are redundant or being weighed out over other forms of harassment...? Is my brain just totally going dead here?

[Kaurie]

Um, I did quote the TOS there. Harassment is one thing. Using a parser is one thing. Using both is two "wrongs" I suppose. I, personally, have never heard of someone being banned simply for using a parser until the people just above me here mentioned it. I thought I heard Yoshida say he didn't really mind parsing so long as it wasn't abused, but I could be wrong on that and it's late here so I'm tired and my memory is failing. But they're not really redundant. One says no unauthorized 3rd party software. The other one says don't harass people and that includes things other than parsed numbers. Now, I do remember someone on either Masamune or my current server (Valefor)-- it was a long time ago and I can't remember which server I was on at the time, who got banned for being a douche and harassing some Japanese players... so I don't really get how they are redundant or being weighed out over other forms of harassment...? Is my brain just totally going dead here?

Yes, you quoted the ToS as if you thought I was saying it wasn't in the ToS - I was simply responding to a quote that said rule 2 is only in effect when coupled with rule 1, which makes rule 2 pointless.
They're simply redundant, because the rule is only applied when the other rule is enforced. In other scenarios, as said by the person I quoted, you're unlikely to have anything happen.

Anyway, this is such a pointless conversation.

[Launched]

While I use Enochian a lot when I play black mage, there is this posted on the forums:

Were you AoEing 4+ mobs a lot in fractal? Most groups I run into in DF do.

Even if you shouldn't try to keep it up, you should still be popping it on trash packs for the 5% extra damage.

Well, it's unlikely someone's going to report you to a GM just for using a parser, is it not?

People will report just for mentioning a parser because they know it's bannable, even if nothing offensive was said.

[KonOkami]

Well, it's unlikely someone's going to report you to a GM just for using a parser, is it not?

I think you are completely misunderstanding what I am saying. I am saying that the parser is against the ToS, and that harassment is against the ToS. You will be banned for harassing someone. You will be banned for harassing someone based on a parser. You will not be banned for a parser. Therefore, the parser clause is not actually enforced and only the harassment clause is reinforced. Which makes the parser clause either redundant, incomplete, or incorrect.

Actually I know people that have been reported just for using one and have received warnings from GMs. Don't personally know someone who was banned for it without harassing but I also can't say it hasn't happened.

[Rawrz]

I was assuming that she was commenting on what was going on for the full run, not just one boss fight and she did imply that they might wipe just because the BLM wasn't using the ability.

I don't think it was a fear of wiping, so much as keeping yourself to a standard/respect for the party. Everyone in the situation acted with hostility, even the "victim" who suggested enochian and got kicked. If they could see their own numbers and understand that they fell behind the other dps, maybe the hostility would have been met with acceptance instead. If I was in the run and after our chat, the black mage began using enochian, they would have gotten my commendation, but instead the third party member butted his head in where it didn't belong. In that case, a group parser could have helped him to understand how Enochian makes a difference, since he doesn't have a BLM himself and that enochian increases all damage, not just unlocking fire IV/Bliz IV..