Would you like an in-game parser?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

snip.

I'm anti parser in so far as I expect problems from the general player base if they have access to one. I have absolutely no interest in being parsed without my consent, and while an 'opt in' version could work, unfortunately it won't because of the stigma that not wanting to show your parser means your bad. I also call bull on those that claim to only want to help others, but hey, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying, 'Ban all parsers rawr' I'm saying, ' Don't give those who would abuse the information it presents ammunition to abuse others even more vehemently.' You have your own parser? Fine, but don't make an official one because it'll become mandatory for everything.

[Seraphix2407]

stigma that not wanting to show your parser means your bad. .

I wouldn't care if you closed your parser, but It would be a bit fishy my own opinon. If a person know they are good they will just show it and don't care. I think many wont hide the parser if there ever gonna be a option for it, because I'm sure many would just be open for improvenent, so people could see so they could help them improving. And no the official one wont be a mandatory thing for faceroll content, it will however for savage and primals, so why not just make a parser for those content anwyays. Not like you do them anwyays and would care if they put parsers in there, unless you do, then expect people to expect from you to play good.

[CookieMonsta]

I'm anti parser in so far as I expect problems from the general player base if they have access to one. I have absolutely no interest in being parsed without my consent, and while an 'opt in' version could work, unfortunately it won't because of the stigma that not wanting to show your parser means your bad..

but why is universal parsing a bad thing? faster roulettes? cleaner Ex Primals? bigger Savage community?
This is the incongruence I am seeing with people against parsers. Why is it acceptable for Healers and Tanks to be judgeable (you can tell their performance from the emnity meter and HP bar) and yet DPS have zero accountability?

As someone who has mained DPS from the beginning but have just started Tanking. People cannot tell the difference between my good DRG day and my bad DRG day without a parser so I pretty much get a free pass on 90% of stuff but they will absolutely judge and threaten vote kick the everloving hell out of my WAR if I so much as let a mob run-off and maul the healer.

PS: btw the Emnity meter and HP bar are both super duper useful quantitative measurement tools visible to the whole party, which tells me how effective I am at absorbing damage and cycling my emnity combos.

[KonOkami]

but why is universal parsing a bad thing? faster roulettes? cleaner Ex Primals? bigger Savage community?

Except that is not what is gonna happen. Universal parsing isn't gonna "enrich" the community, it's gonna shrink it instead by thinning out the herd. Whoever does not dish out optimal(yes optimal! we all know that's what it's gonna come down to) dps is gonna be shamed with the support of an official tool. And the DPS have accountability ofc, it's just harder to see during the time cause everyone has too much on their plate to pay attention to much more than their immidiate situation. If you record your fights and watch after, paying attention to every member since you don't have to watch for 1 million things anymore it's pretty easy to spot who performs well and who doesn't.

I'm all for parsing built in with premade groups, especially now that raid finder is coming, so that statics can have a useful tool in their disposal, but no, this is not a feature I'd like to see in "casual" content, especially in DF. That content is designed to be doable by anyone, no matter their "proficiency" and should not be turned into a sausage measuring contest.

[starLivitation]

Except that is not what is gonna happen. Universal parsing isn't gonna "enrich" the community, it's gonna shrink it instead by thinning out the herd. Whoever does not dish out optimal(yes optimal! we all know that's what it's gonna come down to) dps is gonna be shamed with the support of an official tool
.

not really, we can all strive to improove. i play blm on my spare time and i noticed i didnt meet the seph x or most of the stuff dps checks on the dummy trial. took some practice got better, now i can do them fine.
dont blame the tool, blame the person who is using it to shame people, and not bother to help them to learn how to do a better roation.

[KonOkami]

not really, we can all strive to improove. i play blm on my spare time and i noticed i didnt meet the seph x or most of the stuff dps checks on the dummy trial. took some practice got better, now i can do them fine.
dont blame the tool, blame the person who is using it to shame people, and not bother to help them to learn how to do a better roation.

I agree with everything you said. The people that wanna improve will do so with or without the parser, even though the parser is gonna be a very precious tool for this. The people that don't, well you can usually spot those even without a parser, their performance just screams "I'm only here to get carried" from miles.
And yes, I do see the need for it in EX and Savage content and as I said I'd welcome it there(maybe I didn't phrase it quite right, sorry, it's still early xD ). But imo, stuff like drex and nm trials shouldn't be subjected to this because even subpar performances are enough to clear. Would I like to do a drex in 15mins instead of 25? Sure! Personally my performance can support this and is always nice to end up in a group that performs the same way. But is it something I expect from everyone? No, and it won't ever be. It's content designed for everyone whether they have the drive and time to optimise their performance or can only log for 1-2 hours a day and barely manage to farm half of they stuff they want. A personal parser would be more than enough in that kind of content if all we care about is improving ourselves.

And yes, ofc a tool is not to be blamed for it's usage but unfortunately I don't have enough faith in this community to support the unconditional access to what I believe will become a tool of harassment instead of a tool of improvement. There are already numerous "incidents" posted here and there about people getting bashed for subpar performances in all kinds of content and even though there's no way to know if their performance was indeed bad or not there's one thing there that is indisputable. The way they were treated is horrendous. Even if they were performing badly there's numerous ways to say something but, at least what reaches the forums, is cases where they were being bashed and shamed right away, not polite comments of trying to mix up their rotations, no helpful advice on their skill usage, no encouragement to experiment further.
I wish I had the kind of faith that you seem to have in the general population but I don't. That's why imo the most sensible approach is a personal parser that can be hidden in the HUD options, with the ability to enable a party parser in the party options when you go in somewhere with a premade(which is how you go in Ex and savage anyway, who is blindly queing for them? Especially with raid finder on it's way), the same way min ilvl or undersized are enabled. That way people that are raiding have an invaluable tool in their disposal while the general population is not subjected to a forced feature that they do not wish to have. I think that's the best compromise to please both sides.


tl;dr: people that wanna improve will improve regardless so give parser option in party settings for premades to have this invaluable tool and don't shove it down everyone's throats.

[Seraphix2407]

And yes, ofc a tool is not to be blamed for it's usage but unfortunately I don't have enough faith in this community to support the unconditional access to what I believe will become a tool of harassment instead of a tool of improvement.

I agree with some of what you said. You know when I do expert roulettes, sometimes I do it with random people sometimes I don't.
When I do it with random's I'm sure it will be a slower run, unless I get into a premade party or a very good party of mixed players from different servers. However, it doesn't matter if it's random or not, because I will still play my best. When I do something, I want to get in and out fast, simply makes me avaible to do other things before I have to log out. And yes, not everyone ''needs'' a parser, there are bunch of people who barely do any expert roulettes and such things, but I doubt those people will be casted out. You know, even if those people barely do expert roulettes, doesn't mean they doing it everyday, many prefer to RP, sit in limsa and hang out with their linkshell/fc or their friends in general for example. If they get in roulettes, okay so what if they do 100-200 dps less, myself and others talk about dropping down 50% in roulletes (since you happened to mention it, so I need to reply to this) Just because you don't often do battle content or roulettes, doesn't mean you are allowed to slack 50% of what actuall can do, much as it's not okay for a guy with a parser to harras them.

Oh trust me, many people get advices on their way, they just ignore them, I could list up many examples of what I've seen and done for other players. One of them being my BRD friend, I did roulette with her and she didn't use the stance to do more DPS, wanna know why? Because she wanted to move while doing DMG, is it acceptable? My opinion? no, not really. When you do expert roulette and 450 dps as BRD and just want to make dodgin easier for you, simply because you refuse to use stance? Doesn't work like that. The class after all is designed to use the stance, because you have more cds on the stance.
Well good thing she changed it when I told her she has to keep it up.

But I will ask you a question. Have you ever thought about why people get's told their dps is low? I talk about 30-50% lower than they could be.

It's nice and all but it sill does not answer one question: Why do I have to be parsed because this fellow want a parser ? Why do everybody have to eat pancakes because some of us want them ?

If you want to slack in a party of mine, you shouldn't even be in it after all. If you go in a group of people with same mindset of slackers, things will happens, like not even being avaible to clear it. Put 4 dps at 950 dps in seph extreme, tanks at 500-700 and healers at zero, it would enrage. Just because one of those dps killed it in another group doesn't mean they will kill it in a group with people who does low as them.

Why/how is PLD a dps penality? Have it ever come to your mind people still wipe in seph extreme with 230 weapons and still do low as people who did them with 210 weapons? If 7PLDs could do it nearly 2 months ago, I don't see why a normal group can't do it. But hey it happened, how do we let them improve? Put them on the dummystrike for 3min and hope they beat it? Then if they do, then you see no change in battle. When people judged me using their parser, I knew something was wrong. I didn't sit there and think that I was doing okay just because someone told me I was doing low, it's the opposite, I needed to improve. If there is a thing that could show a large playerbase that they slack, the slackers can no longer backup what they say. Many think they doing good until they see with their own eyes. Oh trust me, many do try to help but people gets all emotional and say they don't need any. And if a parser happens and they still all slack (30-50% lower they should be) then you can no longer help them and they just sit there and expect free runs. /sadface.

[KonOkami]

*snip*

Of course a 30-50% dps less is not an acceptable performance, in anything other than starting content where people are still trying to learn their classes but do you honestly need a parser for that kind of reduced performance? At least for me if someone is performing in that scale it's painfully obvious if you just take a few seconds to see their skill usage.

And yeah, I am not saying the other side doesn't exist where no matter how politely you ask someone to alter their rotation or correct their mistakes eg. healing in stance, even with specific advise how to better it, you are faced with an astonishing silence on their part with no signs of anything changing, or even worse get the whole "Why are you telling me what to do? Do you see me telling you what to do? I'm gonna do as I please and you go please yourself with a cactus!" attitude. This is just as bad as what I mentioned above and I'm not gonna defend any of those people. But fortunately you already have a tool to counter this, Kick Vote.

The demographic I was talking about is those people that do not have any interest in raiding or they do but their rl obligations do not allow them to put the effort and time into a game to achieve what those "hardcore" people achieve, so they stay out of it and stick with the casual content without being a complete drag to everyone(like the 50% cases you mention). I have several cases in my FC and social circle in my server that have been called names in random dungeons(nothing midcore-hardcore) because of their allegedly bad performance, however I've run with them on multiple occasions and can say with certainty they do not belong in that 30%+ performance group. Sure, they're not optimal, but they rarely do less than 300 dps lower than their max.