Would you like an in-game parser?

[Dement]

The problem there is the fact that people already expect others to do more than their intended role. Regardless of how well things are going or not, healers are expected to deal DPS too, and typically fairly large amounts. I've seen main healer white mage get kicked from a group for doing 1,200 in i200. Like it or not, so long as healer expected DPS is kept at zero,any DPS that comes from your healers is in fact making up for the shortcomings of the actual DPS, regardless of how good/bad they are.

I'm assuming that happened during one of the over 9000 healers you've seen kicked for not DPSing. Most of the top scores for WHM in Hummelfaust are not over 1200 DPS and that's a fight which is solely a DPS check with the other healer doing the vast majority of the healing and were posted within the last month or two. Thus, I very highly doubt you know a WHM in i200 gear that did 1200 DPS.

Contributing to DPS is not "more than their intended role" for any job. Every job has damage capabilities in some form or another and accuracy caps are such that every job can reach the accuracy cap in every fight. I'm not saying healers should be held to a DPS standard but if you're sitting around not casting anything because minimal damage is going out, it makes sense that you could fill that down time with something productive.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Well, no, she didn't do 1200 DPS. That's why she got kicked. I should mention this was way back when Gordias was relevant.

[Kaurie]

Well, no, she didn't do 1200 DPS. That's why she got kicked. I should mention this was way back when Gordias was relevant.

Sometimes people kick for fairly silly reasons. This is often the result of lack of education, or lies. Perhaps they said the 1.2k DPS thing, but really they just wanted their healer friend to join? *shrug*.

I know it is a different game, but I saw a WoW post recently of a mage who got kicked because the warlock couldn't control his pet.

I've also heard of healers getting kicked for DPSing - an FC mate of mine actually had that happen to him.

[Dement]

Well, no, she didn't do 1200 DPS. That's why she got kicked.

I misread it, however, I'm still highly skeptical that a healer actually got kicked because they weren't able to do more DPS than 95% of WHMs can do in 230+ gear. This is only further compounded by the fact that if the reason cited was because they couldn't do 1200 DPS, then that means the kicker had a parser going. This would mean that the kicker probably frequently uses a parser and would be very acutely aware of the fact that they've likely never ran with a healer capable of outputting more than 1k DPS in a dungeon. That's the thing about parsers, they don't exist in a vacuum where you suddenly forget the fact that no healer ever has done 1200 DPS in ilvl 200 gear.

1 WHM on Gilgamesh broke 1200 DPS in Faust in all of 3.0 and it was in November, 3-4 months after the tier came out; thus again it's highly unlikely they had any 200 gear at that point.

[Seraphix2407]

The problem there is the fact that people already expect others to do more than their intended role. Regardless of how well things are going or not, healers are expected to deal DPS too, and typically fairly large amounts. I've seen main healer white mage get kicked from a group for not doing 1,200 in i200. Like it or not, so long as healer expected DPS is kept at zero,any DPS that comes from your healers is in fact making up for the shortcomings of the actual DPS, regardless of how good/bad they are.

ETA: Huzzah! 100 pages reached! New goal is 200. ' u'

You seen whm with ilvl 200 for not doing 1200 in ilvl 200, and then you said earlier 1250 healers been kicked since hw for not dpsing. It's very hard to take you serious, it really is.

Edit:

I never say I boot them personally, but I've been witness to a little over 1250 healers being booted since the beginning of Heavensward for not contributing DPS, and have only seen 2 or 3 that weren't booted for it..

[RLofOBFL]

How would this give any indication as to who is/isn't pulling their weight though?
And the example you have given has a dps below a tank and this is only flagged as yellow, which you say indicates being "good enough", but should actually be a concern

Just calling it like it is acual df content....
And the whole point of not seeing the actual damage is bc people can & will harrass specific people for low numbers, like they do now only far worse. If both dps 1300+ like a 230 is expected & Tank does at least 400, then it will be 3K and passing/good

The numbers were only examples anyway so why take it heart, & not every duty has to be optimum deeps....just enough to be under 20 mins. And my math was off the other dps is actually 800*

[Adventica6]

I don't need a parser to find out who is doing awful dmg, I check which class, then I check their gear, I don't need a program to tell me information I can already find.

Did I join a group with a bard or nin? then dmg is going to be low automatically, there is certain flags that go off, drg not keeping up heavy thrust, nin not using dots or keeping up huton, I can tell who is doing terrible just by looking at what they are doing in general / what class / what gear they are using.

[Kezy_Kaatapoh]

No, I play for fun, not for measuring my performances.

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? What if some find measuring their performance fun?

Honestly, I don't think there's much more to say in this conversation. Compromises have been presented, but the fight rages on. It seems to me that most people (on both sides) are looking at it more of "how does it effect me?" and then basing their decision off that instead of thinking about how it'll effect the game at large.

My final stance is basically that I don't think the game would turn into the nightmare anti-parser people imagine it to turn out to be. There might be a small spike upon release of a parser of some harassment from people misinterpreting it, but I think some reports and a month or two later then it'd be back to normal. The community in this game has overall been great when it comes to understanding proper use of parser, which are already quite widespread even now. Are there some bad apples? Sure. But that's life. There's always some. And you counteract those some by going after them, not the tools they use. Going back to the gun debate, the prevailing idea among those against guns (despite what the media might tell you) is to not necessarily get rid of them, but improve mental health care and education of gun ownership so that less people that shouldn't have them, don't have them, and those that do understand their usage. (Obviously, the whole thing gets a lot more complicated, as guns are more dangerous than a parser and are a different object with different nuances, making some other arguments not really work, such as making background checks more stringent, which can't really apply to a parser, but my point still stands.) I think if SE added a full on parser that had some kind of further information session about it that was mandatory when you did the quest to unlock it, then we wouldn't really have any problems overall. You can never completely eliminate harassment, but I think proper measures taken upon introduction of a parser would curtail all of the fears people have.

Just my final two cents.

[Seraphix2407]

I don't find mesuring fun, I find improving myself as player and helping other players improving fun. Why? Because their faces smile so hard, I can see their smile through my screen how happy they are to improve or saw a large improvement. Want to know my personal input on this thread? It's all about peoples feelings, it really is. What about those people out there on their ps4 would love to improve. Do you want to prevent them getting better and improve? Honestly many finding improving fun, so fun they start to realize being so good and wanted is just fun itself. Just being honest here. I've got told I'm bad in a moderate way and in nicest way, but each time I got told I was bad, I wanted it to stop, wanted people to start invite me and say hey, this guy he knows how to do his shit, so invite him. The joy of feeling I improved and could do content with 7 people, solo heal content and stil dish out 150-200 dps as SCH while solo healing it with 7 PLDS. That feeling is amazing. For me that's all fun. For me wiping a party because I would ignore the fact I was bad or just make up my own rotation would NEVER be fun, why? Because 7 other people doesn't have fun and I want them all to have fun with me and not by myself.

Did I join a group with a bard or nin? then dmg is going to be low automatically.

What makes you think that? I've seen BRDS do more than MNKS, DRGS, BLM and SMN. Same with ninja. Just because they have lower dps input doesn't mean it will ''automatically'' be low dps.


This happened today. I was about to log out and this soul sent me a tell. if a guy likes his goddamn pancakes, doesn't mean he shouldn't eat them because you don't like them at all. Should we take care of your feelings because you don't like pancakes? Hell no, I want to eat my pancakes.

[Reiryuu]

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? What if some find measuring their performance fun?

So... because some people find measuring performance fun, all people need to have their performance measured even if they don't find it fun? I don't think any of us have said stop using your parser to measure and improve yourself if that's your thing. Just don't use it to measure others if they don't want it done. That's been my entire argument this whole time and many of you just scoff us off as "you must be bad, so you don't want to be parsed."

There are times when your parser numbers aren't going to tell you the whole story about someone. There are some people who will just look at the numbers-- just like the people in this thread who say "oh, anti-parser must be bad player" (and there are many in this thread alone), and abuse it. Can't you have your cake (which you currently do and are enjoying) and I have my cake (which likewise, I have and am enjoying) and so long as I'm not shoving my cake down your throat (let's call this the people who spam blizzard I in lvl 60 dungeons) you don't cram yours down mine (we'll call this the people who rage if you're not at 100% optimization) and we'll call it even?

This happened today. I was about to log out and this soul sent me a tell. if a guy likes his goddamn pancakes, doesn't mean he shouldn't eat them because you don't like them at all. Should we take care of your feelings because you don't like pancakes? Hell no, I want to eat my pancakes.

It's always unfortunate when something prevents someone from having what they want. But he seems to be wanting something to measure himself, not something that will measure others.