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  1. #11
    Player
    Reinha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,069
    Character
    Reinha Sorrowmoon
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaurie View Post
    When it comes down to it, all of our analogies suck, because there are very few things in this world which are similar. This is a digital tool used in an entertainment medium which is experienced in a cooperative environment for which we pay monthly. I don't know many other things that fit those criteria, outside of other MMO's, which do have parsers and all evidence of their effects are completely anecdotal ("well, when I played WoW, people were jerks with parsers!", "yeah, well I play WoW and i've never seen anyone be a jerk, but I've seen a lot of good come from it." "yeah well...")
    I think the analogies of school grades are pretty accurate. Everyone gets a number from a test and they have a right to not show it to their peers. This could be a different case in your country. I've seen pupils afraid or attention for both good and bad grades, annoyed by their not-high-enough-grade, satisfied with their grade, bullied for their grade, congratulated for their grade, unable to get a higher grade because of their mental limitations, unable to get a higher grade because they just don't put in enough effort to practice, and getting ridiculously competitive over grades. Now bear in mind, everyone knows what the best grade, the lowest grade and the average grades are because the grading system is known to all. There is no need to compare to peers because the scale is already known. Everyone has extensive experience getting graded. Yet, that doesn't change the fact that half the people don't get the grade that represents "good" performance. Knowing their previous grade very rarely resulted in a better grade next time as far as I saw. Even in the case of co-operative projects and tasks that affect every team member's grade, people performed at their usual level.

    The rotation and general requirements of a dps class tests muscle memory (where are my buttons), short term memory (what buffs are up, where am I in my rotation), long term memory (abilities, what is my rotation, what different rotations do I have: burst/aoe/single target/debuff upkeep), reaction speed (procs, interrupting, positioning, utility spells), processing capacity (environtment, party members status, boss abilities) and studied knowledge of the game (stats, melding, typical combat mechanics, gear acquisition, consumables, role boundaries, repairing gear, mechanics of other classes and jobs). I find the demands very similar to what a school subject might require a student. At the higher end of performance people are required to analyze, find connections and consequences, reflect on past knowledge and be creative.

    Maybe this is why I can't take very seriously the ambitious goal of "improving the player base as a whole" when we're talking about public parsers in DF. Has there ever been a case where the public visibility of grades made the whole school get A-grades or even Bs? I doubt it. Peer pressure does not affect everyone and it's effect diminishes the older we get. There is also a gender difference: males are affected by peer pressure more than females are. On average, males become more competitive and more engaged in the activity when there is competition involved, whereas females do not and in some cases become mentally withdrawn and disinterested in the activity. Some people do not flourish in a competitive environment and it would be unfair to give them no choice in this regard (i.e. the ability to choose to show their numbers / choose the content without public parsers / choose groups without public parsers). This is not even taking in to account bullying or test phobia, just regular people who do a bit worse and enjoy it less when it's a competition. Competition also doesn't just mean people getting rewards. It's a situation where people can be put in order from worse to better in some way, like based on dps numbers. Asking people to avoid the subconscious effects of a competitive atmosphere (negative or positive) is not realistic and hence we need to allow people to avoid such an environment altogether as they have been able to so far.

    I also wonder if there is an effect to performance when people know or don't know how well they personally did. I recall Sweden having schools where pupils were not given grades at all, but other kinds of feedback. I would be interested to know if there are studies that have measured change or difference in the pupils' performance compared to ones that know their grades. If there is no change or difference then that would make me believe it's not the grade itself that helps people learn but rather the quality of teaching and cultivating internal motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Remus View Post
    You don't need to compete. I just gave that as an example of a theory. For some people competitiveness drives them. If you don't care about competing but your DPS is fine nothing to worry about I can understand where you are coming from with your statement though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lambdafish View Post
    I understand where Remus is coming from. The idea is to encourage peoples competitive sides, for those who have them. Give incentive to see higher numbers rather than saying "get to the end at your own pace". If that doesn't interest you then you simply don't have to do it. It's not a competition between DPS (that would be dumb in a dungeon with a MNK and BRD), its a competition between a DPS and his past "high score".
    If you understand that some people don't want to participate in a competitive environment or activity, then would you be fine with letting people to hide their dps from others and hide others' dps from themselves? Talking about all content except Extremes and Savage.
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    Last edited by Reinha; 05-27-2016 at 02:40 AM.
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