Would you like an in-game parser?

[Preypacer]

Worried about what? He has no idea what could happen if parsers become legit, we have no idea either. Nobody has an idea: all we have is conjecture, just theories about how other games "supposedly" became toxic because of the recounts and damage meters. People are just afraid, nothing more nothing else.

A rather naive question/argument.

How does he know? Well, multiple ways.

At the very least, a couple things known as "precedent" and “first-hand experience”.

First, and least of all, Yoshi-P has well over a decade of MMO experience, playing at a high/competitive level (high-ranked PvP'er in DAoC, etc). He has more experience in this genre than likely many posting on these very forums. He knows what MMO communities can breed, because he's been part of them, and has certainly seen the ugliness they can produce. He brings that experience/knowledge to bear when making decisions that he knows - again, from precedent/experience - can have a negative effect on the community in FFXIV - something he wants to avoid as much as possible, because providing a community already capable of hostility ways to be even more hostile is not good business sense.

The concern people have of parser data being abused quite likely comes from having and/or seeing just that happening, in myriad MMOs, over many years now. It didn't just arise out of thin air. If the tone around parser data had historically been a positive one; if people truly did use it as constructively and helpfully as some here claim/believe/predict it would, I doubt we'd be having that conversation.

The problem is, there are too many people who look for any way they can to belittle, ostracize and harass other players. Want examples? How many threads have been started on these forums where people are requesting more and more "valid" reasons to kick someone from a group, which all ultimately boil down to nothing more than their own arbitrary "personal standards" not being met? How many threads have been started where people are requesting more and more ways to exclude people from content on a similar basis? How many times do we see people - in-game and out - talking about how some person in their group "wasn't performing up to the poster's standard", even though the content was being cleared?

And people here are going to claim that if you were to put actual numbers in the hands of these people, that they aren't going to weaponize that data as yet one more way to bash, belittle and humiliate another player, while feeling emboldened that it would be 'officially supported'? Anyone trying to argue that is either extremely gullible, or thinks the rest of us are.

Secondly, and most of all, he happens to be the Producer and Director of this game. He has access to data that no one on these forums (unless they're Yoshi-P or someone at SE with that access) has access to. Speaking of parsers, they have access to numbers, chat logs, you name it. I believe it was the last Census where they'd parsed how many times people said “Yoshida!” in chat, across all servers on all Data Centers. That's the kind of data they have access to.

How complicated do you think it is for him - when considering whether an official parser is a good idea in this game - to ask one of his people to do a parse for instances of terms like “parser” or “parser numbers” in the different chat logs, and then to review the kind of discussions taking place around those terms? What do you think the chances are that he'd see substantially more than just a small handful of rather hostile, vitriolic exchanges, involving the parsers attacking other group members whom were – again, per other data Yoshi-P has access to – performing adequately within the requirements of the given content?

And before you say “that can't happen because it's not allowed...”, save your breath. It happens. It's happened in groups I've been in, much to even my surprise. Turns out some people in this game know it's not allowed, but simply don't care. They justify it (to themselves) by arguing that “the game is supposed to have it, but since SE hasn't implemented one, that they're “forced” to use one” (because it's always the victim narrative with these people – but that's a whole other pile of manure, and I digress). Their need to make sure another player knows “just how shitty they are and how they should quit the game”, for example,eclipses their concern over being banned for using unsanctioned 3rd party apps. To put it another way, their ego overpowers their better judgment.

Yoshi-P has access to all of that data. He doesn't have to “assume” how people will act – because he can already see how they are acting with his own eyes.

Now, I suspect you're going to dismiss all that, because it's not convenient to your narrative or goal. But that's the facts. Your insistence otherwise notwithstanding, his decisions are not based on 'conjecture', but on actual data, precedent and first-hand experience. His concerns and decisions are far more informed and substantiated than you seem to want to believe.

As I've said before… Want to change attitudes toward official parsers? Start by dealing with those within your own sub-community (the pro-parser folks) and shame those who use such data to shame others. Silence them. Ostracize them. Make it clear that they are the ones who aren't wanted in parties, not the people whom – for any number of reasons – are not performing as well as they potentially could be.

Now… A few other points I'd like to address.

The argument that SSS doesn't provide adequate information about DPS performance because there are no raid-like mechanics to deal with. That's a non-sequitur. If you've passed the SSS test for a given encounter, then clearly not being able to hit the needed DPS in the encounter isn't the problem. You've already proven you can. The SSS confirmed that. The problem is you're not familiar with the mechanics of the fight. You're unable to hit your required – and verifiably achievable – DPS because you're distracted by dealing with unfamiliar movements and positioning, etc.

As the fight becomes more familiar, and you learn the dance, know where to go, where to be, etc… the DPS will rise to its necessary levels automatically. Why? Because you'll have more time to focus on that since you're not running around like a headless chicken wondering what the hell is going on. This is common-sense, and even Yoshi-P has mentioned this, I believe, in one of the more recent Q&As. Yet, it amazes me how many times I see it argued that “SSS doesn't help because raid mechanics”.

Regarding how advice is not taken well by some players… yes, some players are simply that touchy that even offering advice with an ice-cream cone, a box of candy and a poem is going to be taken the wrong way. However, what some people try to pass off as “being helpful” beggars belief. I've seen people say things like “Dude, how did you get this far in the game without knowing how to play your job? You're supposed to be doing “x, y, z”. Or, “you're playing really badly, you need to watch some videos and learn to play right”, “Here's some advice on how not to suck” and other such abrasive remarks (all of which, while paraphrased, I've actually seen in party chat). Then these people are surprised when their “constructive criticism” is met with defensiveness or hostility.

Meanwhile, I've seen people who say things like, “Hey, -insert name here-, would you mind if I offered some tips on -insert role here-?”, or “I can suggest a good rotation that will help your DPS a lot, if you want”, or “Do you have “such and such skill” from “such and such class”? It's a really helpful skill you should try to get. It helps your “such and such” a lot”. I've also seen those kinds of remarks. Not surprisingly, the reaction to those people is 100% more positive. I hope I don't have to explain why.

The point is - before you complain about "people not accepting my advice" or "getting defensive" - consider the way that advice is being offered or stated.

Regarding people who claim that if they're doing (as a random example) 1500 dps, and another is "only" doing 1000 that you were "carrying that person", answer me this: Could you have cleared that content, in the same amount of time, and with the same efficacy without the 1000 dps person being there? If no, then they were contributing, you were not carrying them, and you should promptly get over yourself.

And lastly, if someone's in your group and says “Hey, I'm new, can anyone offer any helpful advice or tips for me?”, if all you're going to say is “Don't die”, or “don't step in the bad stuff, and don't die”… just shut up. You're not being helpful, nor are you trying to be. You're being an obnoxious douchebag. And if you are that person, and the new person makes a mistake, do not bitch them out or try to vote-kick them. They asked for tips/advice… you chose to be an ass.

[Seraphix2407]

..

People choose to be ass with and without parsers. People gets help but ignore it. You know why? Because they think they are doing good enough, being ignorant, it's in a humans nature. Also the whole yadayda Yoshida knows MMO community, he have also said many times (cba to find the videos and post he made) that using a parser is a very good tool to have. Problem is, if you use it, dont use it to insult people, that's where the challenge comes right? Now many here says many uses parsers in secret but yet you see less of those who use them talk shit, you see more of those bad toxic attitude people doing whatever they want and give a damn. If they weren't so ignorant and avoiding the issue there will be less of those ''asshats'' using parsers.

[Voltyblast]

A rather naive question/argument.

How does he know? Well, multiple ways.

At the very least, a couple things known as "precedent" and “first-hand experience”.

First, and least of all, Yoshi-P has well over a decade of MMO experience, playing at a high/competitive level (high-ranked PvP'er in DAoC, etc). He has more experience in this genre than likely many posting on these very forums. He knows what MMO communities can breed, because he's been part of them, and has certainly seen the ugliness they can produce. He brings that experience/knowledge to bear when making decisions that he knows - again, from precedent/experience - can have a negative effect on the community in FFXIV - something he wants to avoid as much as possible, because providing a community already capable of hostility ways to be even more hostile is not good business sense.

I doubt that he's the only person who has decades of years of experience in MMO. Infact I think I'm one the "youngest" when it comes to mmo experience (I'm only 27, but I've played dozens of mmos already: many others are probably twice as old). Sure he probably knows what it means, but I ask again this: how does he know that parser will ruin the game? As far as I'm concerned I don't see much toxicity due to parsers, I see toxicity due to OTHER things. I'm sure he knows (or at least has some information about it), but my point is that there's no absolute truth that parsers will ruin the community and in my case, I don't see many parser users blaming poor dps for their performance. So again, we have no solid proof.

The problem is, there are too many people who look for any way they can to belittle, ostracize and harass other players. Want examples? How many threads have been started on these forums where people are requesting more and more "valid" reasons to kick someone from a group, which all ultimately boil down to nothing more than their own arbitrary "personal standards" not being met? How many threads have been started where people are requesting more and more ways to exclude people from content on a similar basis? How many times do we see people - in-game and out - talking about how some person in their group "wasn't performing up to the poster's standard", even though the content was being cleared?

The game has only one rule: having the highest dps possible while doing mechanics flawlessly without dying. Anything else is irrelevant, but that little that there is has to be done perfectly or else you're not doing any good. My opinion here is that it's the game's fault that everything is based around pure damage, while mechanics are just a nuisance more than an actual tactics. In most mmorpgs I played tactics were made to so that some bosses were different than others and while there were dps checks, they were usually tame and rare. Plus, if you miss any mechanic you usually (USUALLY, as in not always) make it wipe. So people complain a lot because the game demands high skills in later content, which is the base of the game. I don't raid anymore but Coil required alot of work, work that didn't feel really satisfactory and that personally didn't click with me.

And people here are going to claim that if you were to put actual numbers in the hands of these people, that they aren't going to weaponize that data as yet one more way to bash, belittle and humiliate another player, while feeling emboldened that it would be 'officially supported'? Anyone trying to argue that is either extremely gullible, or thinks the rest of us are.

They already exist and, in addition, you're free to report them for harassing and shaming. I have one but I never harass anyone, even if they're terrible: everyone has to start somewhere afterall, but there are people who will harass them and they existed long ago. And parser users aren't the only players who harass others.

And before you say “that can't happen because it's not allowed...”, save your breath. It happens. It's happened in groups I've been in, much to even my surprise. Turns out some people in this game know it's not allowed, but simply don't care. They justify it (to themselves) by arguing that “the game is supposed to have it, but since SE hasn't implemented one, that they're “forced” to use one” (because it's always the victim narrative with these people – but that's a whole other pile of manure, and I digress). Their need to make sure another player knows “just how shitty they are and how they should quit the game”, for example,eclipses their concern over being banned for using unsanctioned 3rd party apps. To put it another way, their ego overpowers their better judgment.

As I've said before… Want to change attitudes toward official parsers? Start by dealing with those within your own sub-community (the pro-parser folks) and shame those who use such data to shame others. Silence them. Ostracize them. Make it clear that they are the ones who aren't wanted in parties, not the people whom – for any number of reasons – are not performing as well as they potentially could be.

You are right on the fact that it's not allowed and that it's not forced, however I can assure you that not everyone will use it to boost their ego. Proof? Me: I only use to help improving my dps and that's it and, as I mentioned several times, it was thanks to the parser that I found out that I was actually better than I imagined. Sure, some players are like you say, but not every parser user is that horrible and I actually met them. Don't generalize everyone into one category: not everyone plays the same.

The argument that SSS doesn't provide adequate information about DPS performance because there are no raid-like mechanics to deal with. That's a non-sequitur. If you've passed the SSS test for a given encounter, then clearly not being able to hit the needed DPS in the encounter isn't the problem. You've already proven you can. The SSS confirmed that. The problem is you're not familiar with the mechanics of the fight. You're unable to hit your required – and verifiably achievable – DPS because you're distracted by dealing with unfamiliar movements and positioning, etc.

As the fight becomes more familiar, and you learn the dance, know where to go, where to be, etc… the DPS will rise to its necessary levels automatically. Why? Because you'll have more time to focus on that since you're not running around like a headless chicken wondering what the hell is going on. This is common-sense, and even Yoshi-P has mentioned this, I believe, in one of the more recent Q&As. Yet, it amazes me how many times I see it argued that “SSS doesn't help because raid mechanics”

For starters, SSS dps isn't the same as in the real fight because 1) Your stats will be increased due to group bonus 2) Just like you said, movement. Let's assume I have 1500 dps: I can assure you that my dps won't be as high during the real fight, because there are a lot more scenarios where I have to survive a mechanic or two. And yes that's common sense. However you still have no idea how you'll perform in the real match: you might be the worst dps of the group without realizing it, and because you're trying to memorize movement, mechanics, rotations, cds, and so on. SSS only provides you with one information: "You have achieved the dps threshold for X boss", but it doesn't tell you "how much" you will do or how much you have done to it.
And in a game where all raid bosses are essentially dps checks, this is a very important detail to have, but I only speak as an retired raider.

The point is - before you complain about "people not accepting my advice" or "getting defensive" - consider the way that advice is being offered or stated.

I don't have issues accepting advices and I don't really get that defensive (unless angered). Infact someone already countered me saying how my BLM isn't that great due to the lack of SS, and I replied simply by saying "I agree, but I don't really feel the need to". However I see that you're only speaking about the worst of the people without realizing that there are people who will be able to teach things: I did that several times quite a while ago, and without being nasty or anything. But you just imply that we're all bad and terrible and that we're all going to slap them for their bad performance. Again, stop generalizing: there are people and people.

Regarding people who claim that if they're doing (as a random example) 1500 dps, and another is "only" doing 1000 that you were "carrying that person", answer me this: Could you have cleared that content, in the same amount of time, and with the same efficacy without the 1000 dps person being there? If no, then they were contributing, you were not carrying them, and you should promptly get over yourself.

I agree: as long as people do their contribution, I have no issues with their low dps (not that I ever had to begin with). I don't have to get over myself: we're a group attempting to do a dungeon/raid, all I care is finishing said dungeon/raid, and doing it at the best of our skills. Everything else, at least for me, is irrelevant, parser included, since we defeated the boss. However I still wish to know how I fared, and so I test myself. And I'm sure others do the same. And I'm sure others only want to anger and harass. Both scenarios can happen.

And lastly, if someone's in your group and says “Hey, I'm new, can anyone offer any helpful advice or tips for me?”, if all you're going to say is “Don't die”, or “don't step in the bad stuff, and don't die”… just shut up. You're not being helpful, nor are you trying to be. You're being an obnoxious douchebag. And if you are that person, and the new person makes a mistake, do not bitch them out or try to vote-kick them. They asked for tips/advice… you chose to be an ass.

If someone asks me advices, I tell them. If they don't ask me, I don't. I think this is a pretty straightforward discussion, but you're constantly making strawman discussion all through the post. I can assure you that I do not react that way and despite my "carelessness" I do care about the completion of the dungeon, and having everyone knowing what to do is more helpful than having people dying for not knowing tactics. Unfortunately not every group likes to wait and getting explained: I had a lot of mentor runs where I ended up in Ex primals but I was unable to explain due to some random puller. And it wasn't just one who did that.

But again, you just seem to be using various false accusations and generalizing every parser user as "bad people", while I can guarantee that not ALL of them are bad. I definitely don't consider myself bad, even though people have told me that I am, but as long as I don't cause issues (which I never did), and don't harass people (Which I don't), and use the parser for my own benefits (which I always do, unless asked), I simply do my own stuff. But THERE ARE people who harass just for the sake of harassing. And that's 100% fact.

[Ghishlain]

A rather naive question/argument.

How does he know? Well, multiple ways.

At the very least, a couple things known as "precedent" and “first-hand experience”.

First, and least of all, Yoshi-P has well over a decade of MMO experience, playing at a high/competitive level (high-ranked PvP'er in DAoC, etc). He has more experience in this genre than likely many posting on these very forums. He knows what MMO communities can breed, because he's been part of them, and has certainly seen the ugliness they can produce. He brings that experience/knowledge to bear when making decisions that he knows - again, from precedent/experience - can have a negative effect on the community in FFXIV - something he wants to avoid as much as possible, because providing a community already capable of hostility ways to be even more hostile is not good business sense.

The concern people have of parser data being abused quite likely comes from having and/or seeing just that happening, in myriad MMOs, over many years now. It didn't just arise out of thin air. If the tone around parser data had historically been a positive one; if people truly did use it as constructively and helpfully as some here claim/believe/predict it would, I doubt we'd be having that conversation.

The problem is, there are too many people who look for any way they can to belittle, ostracize and harass other players. Want examples? How many threads have been started on these forums where people are requesting more and more "valid" reasons to kick someone from a group, which all ultimately boil down to nothing more than their own arbitrary "personal standards" not being met? How many threads have been started where people are requesting more and more ways to exclude people from content on a similar basis? How many times do we see people - in-game and out - talking about how some person in their group "wasn't performing up to the poster's standard", even though the content was being cleared?

And people here are going to claim that if you were to put actual numbers in the hands of these people, that they aren't going to weaponize that data as yet one more way to bash, belittle and humiliate another player, while feeling emboldened that it would be 'officially supported'? Anyone trying to argue that is either extremely gullible, or thinks the rest of us are.

I've been playing MMOs for over 14 years now, does that make my opinion as valued as Yoshi-Ps? I've probably seen a different array of MMOs from the developer but invalidating and belittling people's opinions because of "experience" when there's a fair share of hard core MMO'rs on these forums isn't doing your argument any favours and shows an arrogance for you that undermines your argument.

With that being said, no one from the anti-parser side of the equation has seemed to come up with a good counter point to

Well, if Yoshi-P provides a minimal expected DPS per content, you can't weaponize DPS numbers anymore since the standards are set by the development team and not the player base.

They already do that indirectly with SSS, extending that to fit all the other content shouldn't be hard for them.

Secondly, and most of all, he happens to be the Producer and Director of this game. He has access to data that no one on these forums (unless they're Yoshi-P or someone at SE with that access) has access to. Speaking of parsers, they have access to numbers, chat logs, you name it. I believe it was the last Census where they'd parsed how many times people said “Yoshida!” in chat, across all servers on all Data Centers. That's the kind of data they have access to.

How complicated do you think it is for him - when considering whether an official parser is a good idea in this game - to ask one of his people to do a parse for instances of terms like “parser” or “parser numbers” in the different chat logs, and then to review the kind of discussions taking place around those terms? What do you think the chances are that he'd see substantially more than just a small handful of rather hostile, vitriolic exchanges, involving the parsers attacking other group members whom were – again, per other data Yoshi-P has access to – performing adequately within the requirements of the given content?

And before you say “that can't happen because it's not allowed...”, save your breath. It happens. It's happened in groups I've been in, much to even my surprise. Turns out some people in this game know it's not allowed, but simply don't care. They justify it (to themselves) by arguing that “the game is supposed to have it, but since SE hasn't implemented one, that they're “forced” to use one” (because it's always the victim narrative with these people – but that's a whole other pile of manure, and I digress). Their need to make sure another player knows “just how shitty they are and how they should quit the game”, for example,eclipses their concern over being banned for using unsanctioned 3rd party apps. To put it another way, their ego overpowers their better judgment.

Yoshi-P has access to all of that data. He doesn't have to “assume” how people will act – because he can already see how they are acting with his own eyes.

Now, I suspect you're going to dismiss all that, because it's not convenient to your narrative or goal. But that's the facts. Your insistence otherwise notwithstanding, his decisions are not based on 'conjecture', but on actual data, precedent and first-hand experience. His concerns and decisions are far more informed and substantiated than you seem to want to believe.

As I've said before… Want to change attitudes toward official parsers? Start by dealing with those within your own sub-community (the pro-parser folks) and shame those who use such data to shame others. Silence them. Ostracize them. Make it clear that they are the ones who aren't wanted in parties, not the people whom – for any number of reasons – are not performing as well as they potentially could be.

You are correct in saying he has access to all the chat data in the world and probably searching for the word "Parse" or "Parser" will get a lot of hits. Bear in mind, however, that searching for one word, "Yoshida", is much different than searching for "Hey, can I see my Parse? I want to know how well I did?" and "Hey, you suck because the parser shows you at Y DPS". Sifting through millions of chat logs to determine the context of "parser" and how it's used is different from searching for how many times Yoshida has been said throughout an MMO's life and has no context to it.

With that being said, you're also assuming a lot with this train of thought too. Yoshi-P does have access to the data and that data will never see the light of day for the general populace unless he chooses to reveal it. You're acting quite presumptuous (like some the pro-parser people you are trying to belittle) to think that you know exactly what that data is telling him and that it paints all gloom and doom regarding releasing a parser.

I'm not going to assume that's the case. Only Yoshi-P himeslf can decide what he wants - we're just having a discussion based around a tool that has both its pros and cons.

I don't know what's in that data, nor am I going to assume anything with it to forward my own argument. You shouldn't either because it show cases, again, a level of arrogance from you that also undermines your argument.

Now… A few other points I'd like to address.

The argument that SSS doesn't provide adequate information about DPS performance because there are no raid-like mechanics to deal with. That's a non-sequitur. If you've passed the SSS test for a given encounter, then clearly not being able to hit the needed DPS in the encounter isn't the problem. You've already proven you can. The SSS confirmed that. The problem is you're not familiar with the mechanics of the fight. You're unable to hit your required – and verifiably achievable – DPS because you're distracted by dealing with unfamiliar movements and positioning, etc.

As the fight becomes more familiar, and you learn the dance, know where to go, where to be, etc… the DPS will rise to its necessary levels automatically. Why? Because you'll have more time to focus on that since you're not running around like a headless chicken wondering what the hell is going on. This is common-sense, and even Yoshi-P has mentioned this, I believe, in one of the more recent Q&As. Yet, it amazes me how many times I see it argued that “SSS doesn't help because raid mechanics”.

SSS provides a gate for a player to see if they are ready for the content. I won't argue that.

What a DPS measuring tool does is provide a sign of progression for a group when they are inside the content - something SSS can't do. Yes, you are correct in thinking that as a group gets more familiar with the content, their DPS goes up. What does the tool give you? How well that group is progressing. If you guys are doing 3 weeks into A8S and three of the DPS have gotten their DPS up by 50% due to getting familiar but the 4th DPS has only gotten a DPS increase of about 5% over those 3 weeks? That's a cause of concern for the group. They now have pin pointed someone that could use some help and can analyze what can be done to help that member out.

Would you be able to isolate for an individual without this tool? Perhaps you can, but it just makes it easier to notice when the numbers are there for you to analyze and see.

Regarding how advice is not taken well by some players… yes, some players are simply that touchy that even offering advice with an ice-cream cone, a box of candy and a poem is going to be taken the wrong way. However, what some people try to pass off as “being helpful” beggars belief. I've seen people say things like “Dude, how did you get this far in the game without knowing how to play your job? You're supposed to be doing “x, y, z”. Or, “you're playing really badly, you need to watch some videos and learn to play right”, “Here's some advice on how not to suck” and other such abrasive remarks (all of which, while paraphrased, I've actually seen in party chat). Then these people are surprised when their “constructive criticism” is met with defensiveness or hostility.

Meanwhile, I've seen people who say things like, “Hey, -insert name here-, would you mind if I offered some tips on -insert role here-?”, or “I can suggest a good rotation that will help your DPS a lot, if you want”, or “Do you have “such and such skill” from “such and such class”? It's a really helpful skill you should try to get. It helps your “such and such” a lot”. I've also seen those kinds of remarks. Not surprisingly, the reaction to those people is 100% more positive. I hope I don't have to explain why.

The point is - before you complain about "people not accepting my advice" or "getting defensive" - consider the way that advice is being offered or stated.

Regarding people who claim that if they're doing (as a random example) 1500 dps, and another is "only" doing 1000 that you were "carrying that person", answer me this: Could you have cleared that content, in the same amount of time, and with the same efficacy without the 1000 dps person being there? If no, then they were contributing, you were not carrying them, and you should promptly get over yourself.

And lastly, if someone's in your group and says “Hey, I'm new, can anyone offer any helpful advice or tips for me?”, if all you're going to say is “Don't die”, or “don't step in the bad stuff, and don't die”… just shut up. You're not being helpful, nor are you trying to be. You're being an obnoxious douchebag. And if you are that person, and the new person makes a mistake, do not bitch them out or try to vote-kick them. They asked for tips/advice… you chose to be an ass.

Either you're being presumptuous again or you've had so much anecdotal evidence in your XIV life that I feel sorry for you. I've been playing the game since AAR launch and I've only seen parser abuse once in my entire career playing the game. I've seen far more abuse from "bad players thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread" than Parser abuse.

Now, you might've seen more since you've obviously been playing since 1.0, given your join date, but I doubt our experiences can diverge that much since we're both in the same data center.

That being said, I'm sorry that your DF experiences have been marred with ass hats if you have indeed gone through so many elitest pricks. They exist, whether we like it or not.

[Seraphix2407]

I've been playing the game since AAR launch and I've only seen parser abuse once in my entire career playing the game. I've seen far more abuse from "bad players thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread" than Parser abuse.

My experience is the same, barely seen parser abuse. Yet to see a solution how to fix that from anti parsers. I'm still all eager to hear their solution to it. Btw great post, love everything about it and you have one of the best arguments in this thread /hats off.

[Kazumac]

My experience is the same, barely seen parser abuse. Yet to see a solution how to fix that from anti parsers. I'm still all eager to hear their solution to it. Btw great post, love everything about it and you have one of the best arguments in this thread /hats off.

My experience is the same. On the flip side, I've seen numerous positives from player's who have adopted using them.

[Shurrikhan]

My experience is the same, barely seen parser abuse. Yet to see a solution how to fix that from anti parsers. I'm still all eager to hear their solution to it. Btw great post, love everything about it and you have one of the best arguments in this thread /hats off.

Best solution I can think of to alleviate the concerns of anti-parser players is to simply put into more actual class/job/role learning into the game, so that by the time the parser's capable of judging them, it's mostly just telling them when they're having trouble syncing rotation and mechanics or are short on gear, not that they have no idea how to play their class/job/role... and boosting their swift kick out of party. Give some actual support, rather than trying to hide the failings of players who have trouble figuring out how to optimize their gameplay on their own (or, at least as often, are unwilling to look up a guide, or don't wish to put in the time on a dummy or across numerous fights to build muscle memory--the benefits of which are easily doubled with a parser).

[Reynhart]

My experience is the same, barely seen parser abuse. Yet to see a solution how to fix that from anti parsers. I'm still all eager to hear their solution to it. Btw great post, love everything about it and you have one of the best arguments in this thread /hats off.

What I've seen a lot is stopping runs because of the DPS issue like "In the end, we'll hit enrage" when most of the team is still learning to deal with mechanics.

I still think SSS is a good progression tool, when it comes to corrrecting pure DPS flaws. If you do a really bad rotation, then you won't clear the corresponding SSS. And if you clear SSS but fail in the content, then it's because you're screwing some mechanics. Like someone posted here, you could gate the entry to content with SSS, to get rid of "bad players thinking they are the best slice bread"...

That's exactly what Faust and Hummelfaust are, technically. But SSS doesn't make you waste 7 other people's time.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Regarding people who claim that if they're doing (as a random example) 1500 dps, and another is "only" doing 1000 that you were "carrying that person", answer me this: Could you have cleared that content, in the same amount of time, and with the same efficacy without the 1000 dps person being there? If no, then they were contributing, you were not carrying them, and you should promptly get over yourself.

No person in the pro parser camp cares about someone doing 1000 if he or she is doing 1500. It's the ones who laze around and let the party carry them who are mentioned. Aka ice mages, or those watching Netflix. I won't even bother with your countless fallacious strawmen since a couple others addressed them already.