Would you like an in-game parser?

[Reynhart]

I would like a group parser because for one (and now I'm going to start calling this my personal running joke) I want to see which player deserves all my Arrows and Balances on AST (lol).

Then, at the beginning, ask if others don't mind being parsed, and they'll uncheck their personal "hide damage" option, so that everybody will nicely be on the same page.
But, if they don't want, then it's their choice. There is no reason to do a "majority wins" here.

Give people the option to choose. If it becomes the norm then live with it, like I have to live with the fact that I'll never find a ShivaEx synched group again. I have to make my own groups (stating "SYNCHED!!!!") and you'd have to make your own groups (stating "NO PARSE!!!), too.

Then there must be a way to make sure that "NO PARSE" is actually no parse. Nothing prevent the leader from secretly parsing and kicking those that are slighty below his expectations.

[Neophyte]

Then, at the beginning, ask if others don't mind being parsed, and they'll uncheck their personal "hide damage" option, so that everybody will nicely be on the same page.
But, if they don't want, then it's their choice. There is no reason to do a "majority wins" here.

In fact it is 'party leader wins'. Always.
Like he chooses the content, heis the one who decides if you go unsynched or minimumilvl and he decides if he contributes the loot or you roll for it.
So why should you not apply that same logic for parsers?
Party leader decides and all you can do is bail out, if you don't want his settings.

[Cnidarian]

Personally, I'm against an in game parser as it will lead to people being more vocal towards those who play sub optimally. While this isn't always a bad thing (as some people are courteous and helpful while being vocal), there are also those that are just plain toxic. I have never seen people harass others personally, but I do know it happens.

For those who claim that SSS isn't working because clearing the SSS doesn't tell you how well you actually do in the fight, I call BS. If you are skilled enough and know your rotation well enough to clear the SSS requirements without completely outgearing the SSS, then you know when you are under preforming in the actual fight. I can clear the A8S SSS at i222 as a BLM (1800 DPS required for BLM), so I know I have a pretty solid understanding of my rotations and proc/cooldown usage as a BLM.

I've only cleared SephEX a few times and I know without using a parser that my dps is low for that fight. I know this because I know how to play my job. I know that I'm not completing my rotations properly in the fight due to having to move. I know that sometimes I use a proc too soon instead of saving it for when I do have to move. I know that I messed up by not moving into position sooner by slide casting my way there and thus am losing out on a GCD which adds up to a lot of missed GCDs by the end of the fight. All of this I know not because a parser told me, but because I know my job and I know when and where I made mistakes. I also know that every time I go in there, I improve and get better. I don't need a parser to tell me this either because I know that each time I make fewer mistakes and I get better at prepositioning.

This is true of all content and is true for all players who truly know how to play their roles. For people who are still learning their roles, they don't need a parser to tell them they how they are performing or if they are improving. We already have a tool that can tell you that which I mentioned previously, the SSS dummies. Pick an encounter appropriate for your ilvl and go from there. If you failed horribly, then you know you need to improve and will seek the information required to improve. A parser isn't going to make you better just because it's telling you that you have low dps. Only the player can make themselves better by seeking the knowledge required and applying it. If the player doesn't want to take this extra step, then a parser isn't going to help them anyways.

I use the above method for every job I play in order hold my own if you will in any content I choose to bring that job to. At the very least, I read all the guides and the various theory crafting discussions for every job I have at 60 so that I have a firm understanding of that job and their rotations. Because I do this, I'm able to assist players that are open to criticism and are willing to improve that I run into during a DF run. I don't need a parser to tell me if they have low dps, I can tell by looking at their cast bars or character animations and buffs/debuffs if they are preforming their rotation properly. (As a point of reference, I have every job at 60 except 50 MNK and 57 DRK).

TLDR: Parsers aren't needed for a person to improve, knowledge of their job and a desire to improve is needed for them to improve.

[Reynhart]

In fact it is 'party leader wins'. Always.
Like he chooses the content, heis the one who decides if you go unsynched or minimumilvl and he decides if he contributes the loot or you roll for it.

If he chooses a different content than the one he told you, you'll see it when DF pops. You'll also immediately see what loot rule is in place, and if you're synced or not.
So, lying on these is just dumb. On the other hand, if parsing is not tied to the Duty or a personal option, then you're screwed.

[Neophyte]

If he chooses a different content than the one he told you, you'll see it when DF pops. You'll also immediately see what loot rule is in place, and if you're synced or not.
So, lying on these is just dumb. On the other hand, if parsing is not tied to the Duty or a personal option, then you're screwed.

But that's exactly what i'm talking about.
Read my post again and the linked one in there, too.

The way i want to see parsers implemented is exactly like the loot rules, but only available in Ex/Savage content which is not in the DF yet.
This would also show up when the duty pops. This would be only available for the newest (ex/savage) content until it's outdated (= available per DF).
This would only be available if you have a full group and everyone clicks on 'yes' (like when you choose to lootmaster).
This would only work if you trust your partyleader/-members (like lootmaster).

[Seraphix2407]

TLDR: Parsers aren't needed for a person to improve, knowledge of their job and a desire to improve is needed for them to improve.

While I do agree with that, there are certain things you can improve. Even IF you know how to do rotations in fight, as you mentioned, you move alot, gotta do things slightly different in the fight, have to adapt to situation etc, you know it. Problem is, when some one is called out, yes called out for being a low dps and they say their dps is fine when its not, then what? Harrasment? I've even told people I could help them out because their dps is way lower than it should be, but I got reported for it, why?

I'm not saying you are wrong, not at all, but keep in mind, people have to see with their own eyes why they are not included in fights, because it's either they not doing the job properly or their attitude leaves them not wanting to improve. I like that you try really hard to get better without parser and take time to read guides and such, so mad respect for that! Keep in mind there is a lot higher % of players who refuses to give a damn, than those low % who are ''elitist''

My argument FOR parser is simply because there are great numbers who refused to get better or feel harrased even if they have bunch of people who are more than willing to teach them how to play. They need to see with their own eyes why, when they do they will maybe understand more? Btw I'm talking about content like primals and raids. Problem is many wants to do those type of content but won't do their job, in this case as DPS. However, if you do 1.1k as BLM and the other is at 1.6k, that's a huge difference right there. Now the parser wont make you great as you stated, you have to see why. So you try different rotations during that phase, and if you improve you keep going if not you have to fix it again. That's what parser is doing.

[Reynhart]

But that's exactly what i'm talking about.
Read my post again and the linked one in there, too.

Ok. I didn't read the linked post.
I thought you talked about what Play Style you could set in PF.

But, even then, unofficial parsers would still be usable as a way to go around the settings...like they are now.
On the other hand, if each player can hide its numbers, then it's done.

[Seraphix2407]

Ok. I didn't read the linked post.
I thought you talked about what Play Style you could set in PF.

But, even then, unofficial parsers would still be usable as a way to go around the settings...like they are now.
On the other hand, if each player can hide its numbers, then it's done.

May I ask why people want to hide their numbers? I mean okay, I wouldn't mind it, but it's a bit shady when you try to clear something let's say hummelfaust but can't beat it due to DPS check. How can one figure that one out? I know it's somewhat a stupid question but would like to see your reply on that one .

[Xlantaa]

Snip

Well, I use the word causal, cause I have no other word to use. I do not like things like hardcore, casual, PC master race, or whaever, but I didn't find any other word. With this,I was refering to people who log for a bit, do few dungeons, maybe some other things, they log out for the day. People who does not care about what a DPS is or extreme, or even Alexander normal, they only just want log in, play for fun a while, and that's all. They do roulettes or story dungeons or whatever only. They have another way to play, which is not focusing on battling as other players, but use game for few hours of fun and that. I don't not think correct they can find guy telling this people that his DPS suck and should quit game cause blablabla, you know what I mean. I use the casual word cause I don't know how refer them.

In my opinion, I think they shoulnd't suffer the consequences of a bad use of DPS. That's all. That's why I support a personal, high level content parser or preformed party parser only, and keep them away for the low level tier, which I think is not necesary here.

Like I said, if everyone uses it to help other instead of blaming or use it as kicking/discard tool, I will sign myself with blood if necesary for a parser, becaue yes, I want it, (ATC can crash my game cause my PC is shit). But like I said, before, the community need still to mature a lot, to know when they should use it and when not, how use it and which who person. I still consider the comminuty who is reponsible enough to use it in a good way too few compared with the careless(in the way "I don't mind insult you")/asshole community.

I agree with you and the others who support a parser. It can help to improve the player base DPS, but I still fear on the bad use of it. I just don't want give a gun to a monkey (if that expresion have a meaning in english lol, it is a spanish expression) If people can use it in a responsible way, we don't need to worry about and the parser will be safe (not all players,that impossible, but the majority of them). But, you and me, and others here who will not use it in a stupid way are too few compared with all the community.


PD: Yeah, I see you guys around sometimes in Mist :P

[Reynhart]

May I ask why people want to hide their numbers? I mean okay, I wouldn't mind it, but it's a bit shady when you try to clear something let's say hummelfaust but can't beat it due to DPS check. How can one figure that one out? I know it's somewhat a stupid question but would like to see your reply on that one .

Because lots of mistakes are actually not tied to DPS checks so it would help people to focus on something else.
Your example is a bit biased, since Hummelfaust is really nothing but a DPS check. And for that, SSS is your friend (It's mine, at least)

As for how I'd figure that out, I'd try using words and see how far it'll go.