Would you like an in-game parser?

[Reynhart]

And you just prove its social accepted to have 1 guy 500 dps behind the other.

Or you could have waited till I finished editing my post to answer this exact question.

[Rawrz]

If devs know that the parsers would lead to harrassment increase, and we all know harrassment hurts player retention, why would they add such.

If devs know that the parsers would lead to an increased understanding of your job, and we all know that players who learn to play better enjoy the class more, which helps keep player retention, why wouldn't they add such?

I can make an opinionated, baseless comment as well.

[Seraphix2407]

Or you could have waited till I finished editing my post to answer this exact question.

And having less reason to get better or a tool, fight or even a gate for other content like Titan was to coil, will have people remain the same. Those I've mentioned plenty of time in this thread. However many players still don't know why they are booted or whatnot, so a tool would help them to see why and who knows then they will stop say people harass them if they dps is low and they can actually see for themselves. I also edited my post and sorry didn't see your edit so here is your reply.

[Reynhart]

If devs know that the parsers would lead to an increased understanding of your job, and we all know that players who learn to play better enjoy the class more, which helps keep player retention, why wouldn't they add such?

Because a parser will be far more used for harassment than improvement.

Look at the examples that were shown here : "DPS doing 500 instead of 1500", "a BLM casting only Ice magic"...you don't need a parser to see the flaws in those people. Like you don't need a parser to see a tank not using cooldown and taking way too much damage. What a parser will do is helping you to go from really good to best...to gain those last 10% DPS you might lack in your rotation. And even for those 10%, we actually have a way to judge our rotation, with Stone, Sky and Sea.

[SDaemon]

No matter what, some people are going to be jerks, but if you want to dps check everything, at least give us something legal we can use. I see no harm in allowing it in PF for non-duty finder. And if they put in a parser and say raid wide dps needs to be x, now you at least have a starting point and know everyone is capable of hitting that number.

Which is why I find making SSS a requirement to have access to certain instances completely acceptable. Really its the only entry block in regards to dps that SE could feasibly enforce.

[Reynhart]

Which is why I find making SSS a requirement to have access to certain instances completely acceptable.

It's such a simple solution that it's a shame they didn't thought about it. Or, at least, giving an achievement so that you can prove you passed that challenge.
They could even make one achievement for each challenge and each job.

[KarstenS]

There is a difference between "not knowing your class" and being 10% below perfection, which in these days, means you're absolute garbage.

Its not about the "10%". For Midas Savage you need around 70% of what is possible, maybe less. But there are so many people, which are far away from being at 70%. Without knowing the numbers, you will never know where you need to improve. Without knowing what exactly went wrong, you can't make any progress.

And, by the way, tanking checks are ridiculously low compared to DPS check.

Outside Savage: Yes.

Inside Savage: No.

Its not a good idea to talk about tank and heal checks, when you have never done content where it does matter. Yes, outside of Savage (and maybe Ex Primals in the first week after release) there is no content where tank and healer skills get checked. But in Savage you would be surprised, how much you have to do in these roles to sucessfully beat it at the end.

[Seraphix2407]

Its not about the "10%". For Midas Savage you need around 70% of what is possible, maybe less. But there are so many people, which are far away from being at 70%. Without knowing the numbers, you will never know where you need to improve. Without knowing what exactly went wrong, you can't make any progress.

Or those with ilvl 230 cant pass faust. Honestly even if you pass SSS, doesn't really mean anything when you have to deal with mechanics as well. Specially on classes like where you need to keep stacks up or movement like brd, mch and BLM have.

[Ghishlain]

You forgot to mention how tanks are healers would also need a parser to do the most DPS they can...and you also forgot that we have Stone, Sky, and Sea, which gives a precise objective in the DPS requirement without showing any actual number. Who could have thought ?

Let's answer the first part of your post - healer and tank DPS isn't as important as the damage dealer's DPS. Consider the following quote from this interview from a year ago:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

Tank DPS is rather straight forward and if you consider Tank DPS = DPS necessary to maintain enmity throughout the fight. This value is fairly small compared to the value DPS need to push forward.

Healer and tank DPS is a secondary function to their role and an additional bonus to the group for those who can perform those secondary functions without compromising their primary purpose. Similarly, while a BLM / SMN can provide additional defensive support via Virus and Eye for an Eye, their primary function is to pulverize the mob.

A DPS measuring tool is much more important for a DPS than it is for a Healer or Tank.

Now, to answer the second part of your post - SSS is just a training dummy with a time limit in it. It doesn't teach you anything about the fight in question - just if you have the capability to perform the fight with your current gear and skill level. For example, the SSS may have a DPS check of 1,500 but the actual fight might be a DPS check of 1,200 due to mechanics and the player in question is only doing say 800 DPS when actually put into the fight itself but is still able to complete the SSS.

A DPS that is just going off "muh feels" and hoping that their ability to perform well in SSS allows them to perform well in the fight itself. Without knowing what this metric for a DPS is, it's difficult to gauge if a DPS is improving in real time. If a DPS knows they need 1,200 DPS to perform and are only capable of 800 at this time, then objectively they have to find ways to optimize themselves to reach that goal and it would be clear cut. Of course having these numbers is just only one part of the equation. The DPS in question also needs to realize how to disassemble the fight in such a way where they may be better off using Combo B instead of Combo A at time frame Y of the fight since it'll allow more potency per second for that time frame. What knowing their DPS allows them to do at this point in time is to compare how their DPS is using Combo B over Combo A and if there is an overall DPS increase after X number of attempts, then they know they're improving by changing their thought process.

[Seraphix2407]

..

Couldn't have said it better! Thanks