Would you like an in-game parser?

[Asmodai]

What could save this game is to remove any damage display,.

That would kill the game in less than a month. What would really save this game is not listening to the vocal minority and give the vast majority of players what they want as far as add-ons which includes parsers.

Which they are going to do, as Yoshi has said several times.

[Reynhart]

That would kill the game in less than a month.

Why ? Because you say so ?

the vast majority of players what they want as far as add-ons which includes parsers.

Actually, I really doubt that is the majority.

Which they are going to do, as Yoshi has said several times.

You mean how he mentionend several times that he doesn't want to give people parsers because some of them will use this for harassment ?

No anti parser person have even mentioned how those people can improve when they aren't willing to learn or look up guides.

Since when "not having a parser" means not "learning" or refusing "to look at a guide".
I'd really like you to explain that since I've personnally never used a parser, yet I checked a lot a guides or videos on how to do better as a Dragoon, and I know that it helped me improve a lot...without a single parser
And I've even used Stone, Sky and Sea to check on my overall improvement...something I actually mentionned,too

[Seraphix2407]

You mean how he mentionend several times that he doesn't want to give people parsers because some of them will use this for harassment ?


Since when "not having a parser" means not "learning" or refuse "to look at a guide".
I'd really like you to explain that since I've personnally never used a parser, yet I checked a lot a guides or videos on how to do better as a Dragoon, and I know that it helped me improve a lot...without a single parser
And I've even used Stone, Sky and Sea to check on my overall improvement...something I actually mentionned,too

Having almost no DPS requirment will deff kill the game, this is nothing he only states just to be funny, it's true. Why are dps there? To deal damage and do rotations and for your reply to me. Many refuses to read guides and still if they do they aren't good enough to do it, then what? Are you sure you do enough as you should tho? I did midas 4 savage as ilvl 220 drg with 220 spear but with some food and pot and small amount of good rng, I managed to do it. That doesn't tell me how I would perform in the actual fight with mechanics, where many and including myself could fail on.
I'm not saying YOU, haven't checked a guide, many doesn't and that's still a problem and how do we fix that?

[Reynhart]

Having almost no DPS requirment will deff kill the game, this is nothing he only states just to be funny, it's true.

Strange because I actually think having such hard DPS requirement like Alex Savage defnitiely killed more of the playerbase than the whole Coil, where DPS requirement where far far less severe.

Many refuses to read guides and still if they do they aren't good enough to do it, then what?

I didn't defend people who refused to improve. It's just that "a parser is mandatory to improve" mentality is just stupid.

Are you sure you do enough as you should tho?

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ? The one who do enough and not screwing mechanics or the one wo do more than enough but fail the rest.

I'm not saying YOU, haven't checked a guide, many doesn't and that's still a problem and how do we fix that?

You still considered refusing to learn as the same thing as not wanting a parser, which has nothing do with it

Because not seeing yourself progress means you may as well be playing a puzzle game or mario paint.

Except there is a way to see the progress you make...

Or why damage is listed for every weapon in the vast majority of games. People like seeing it.

Several games also don't display actual damage numbers on screen, even though your weapon and skills gives a base number.

I'm sure youre going to say "250 votes out of 600k players proves nothing" and I would respond that the random selection of individuals would equate to a valid opinion poll.

Which it does not. Random selection means nothing in statistics. 250 votes out of 600k players really means nothing.

YoshiP: We’re not going to say we’re forbidding players to use that kind of tool if they make it, but I think that’s really up to the community and players for that decision.

Right, and again, it's way too early to state that the playerbase wants a parser.

If you really want to gove players what they want, you'd allow any player to hide their damage on a personal basis. This way, each player would be able to decide if they want to be parsed or not.

[Asmodai]

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ?

Well, a proper raid group would keep both of them and work on the phase. Hypothetically though if it was a pug and someone had to be kicked then the one not doing the mechanics would be kicked. That's a pretty easy call. Anyone who would kick the person doing the mechanics and maintaining dps that is sufficient to complete the dungeon would be a moron. However, usually if someone is not doing mechanics their DPS will go down dramatically due to them being dead.

[Reynhart]

That's a pretty easy call.

Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

[Asmodai]

Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

That's a pug that isnt reaching the dps check. If you need 4k and you only have 3.5k then you dont have the dps to do it. In a raid group 9/10 times people first try to help the person having an issue before replacing them. It's easier to help someone get better than it is to find someone who already knows how to play.

[Seraphix2407]

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ? The one who do enough and not screwing mechanics or the one wo do more than enough but fail the rest.

Even if 1k dps is done and group manage to kill it, doesn't mean he did enough of his own weight. Keep in mind only 2 days after we beat seph we manages to do it with 7 people, that's 1 guy doing nothing in the entire fight. Things like this can happen, and I've seen it happen plenty of time in groups I don't know. That's why I said 85%. Good example, you join a ravana group back in the days when ilvl was lower, ever dps be pulling 1k plus while one does 550? Is that acceptable? Just because you can kill it, doesn't mean the guy pulled his own job correctly. if he was 800-850 that be better but when you are 450-500 behind everone else, you KNOW very well that's a carry and that's the biggues issue many here speaks of, including myself. Many just socialy accept 1 guy being bad, which is so freaking unfair to a whole group.

Which isn't made. Every time I see a team fail, it's "Oh, we don't have any DPS", because it's easier to keep that on check thanks to a parser.

LIke the other guy said, the guy who dies will anyways do lower dps, no matter what. I only call out people who dies more than he should, if some one is doing less and survives the whole fight but somehow get enrage he has to do more damage. Easy call.

[Reynhart]

Even if 1k dps is done and group manage to kill it, doesn't mean he did enough of his own weight.

No, he did enough. But, yes, maybe he didn't do his best. The problem is that enough is enough. And since goals are actually based on best players, everyone wants the absolute best, even when it's way over enough. Just look at the old "PLD sucks" topic...PLD did enough to beat savage, yet people pushed it out because WAR or DRK did better.

Good example, you join a ravana group back in the days when ilvl was lower, ever dps be pulling 1k plus while one does 550? Is that acceptable?

No, it's not. But this community is way past such a trivial case. Even back in 2.0, people requested relics to invite you to Titan Hard mode. When the Novus was created, having anything besides full Det/Crit was considered garbage. And I remembered people posting that full Det/Crit and Det/Crit/Accu (to avoid rank IV materias) ended in less than 5% gap in DPS.

The problem is that the more you give players means to judge others, the harsher they will become.

if they knew anything they would know in order to get higher DPS in this game you have to perform the mechanics perfectly.

Did you miss the part where BLM are encouraged to stay in AoE to not lose any second out of Ley Lines ?

The performance of a DPS (or any role for that matter) is the sum of their ability to perform their role and deal with the fight mechanics. While that ability to perform one's role is transparent in the case of tanks and healers, in the case of DPS that transparency doesn't exist due to a lack of parser DPS measuring tool (really should be called this more than naught since there are some pretty key differences between the two).

You forgot to mention how tanks are healers would also need a parser to do the most DPS they can...and you also forgot that we have Stone, Sky, and Sea, which gives a precise objective in the DPS requirement without showing any actual number. Who could have thought ?

[Ghishlain]

You forgot to mention how tanks are healers would also need a parser to do the most DPS they can...and you also forgot that we have Stone, Sky, and Sea, which gives a precise objective in the DPS requirement without showing any actual number. Who could have thought ?

Let's answer the first part of your post - healer and tank DPS isn't as important as the damage dealer's DPS. Consider the following quote from this interview from a year ago:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

Tank DPS is rather straight forward and if you consider Tank DPS = DPS necessary to maintain enmity throughout the fight. This value is fairly small compared to the value DPS need to push forward.

Healer and tank DPS is a secondary function to their role and an additional bonus to the group for those who can perform those secondary functions without compromising their primary purpose. Similarly, while a BLM / SMN can provide additional defensive support via Virus and Eye for an Eye, their primary function is to pulverize the mob.

A DPS measuring tool is much more important for a DPS than it is for a Healer or Tank.

Now, to answer the second part of your post - SSS is just a training dummy with a time limit in it. It doesn't teach you anything about the fight in question - just if you have the capability to perform the fight with your current gear and skill level. For example, the SSS may have a DPS check of 1,500 but the actual fight might be a DPS check of 1,200 due to mechanics and the player in question is only doing say 800 DPS when actually put into the fight itself but is still able to complete the SSS.

A DPS that is just going off "muh feels" and hoping that their ability to perform well in SSS allows them to perform well in the fight itself. Without knowing what this metric for a DPS is, it's difficult to gauge if a DPS is improving in real time. If a DPS knows they need 1,200 DPS to perform and are only capable of 800 at this time, then objectively they have to find ways to optimize themselves to reach that goal and it would be clear cut. Of course having these numbers is just only one part of the equation. The DPS in question also needs to realize how to disassemble the fight in such a way where they may be better off using Combo B instead of Combo A at time frame Y of the fight since it'll allow more potency per second for that time frame. What knowing their DPS allows them to do at this point in time is to compare how their DPS is using Combo B over Combo A and if there is an overall DPS increase after X number of attempts, then they know they're improving by changing their thought process.