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  1. #301
    Player
    Reinha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,069
    Character
    Reinha Sorrowmoon
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dement View Post
    However, within the top-tier content, parsing data can be a holy grail of information for raid teams and even PUG groups trying to participate in this content.
    . . .
    However, by limiting the content a parser is available in to these types of fights, the casual crowd, who typically do not even attempt to undertake these kinds of fights, would remain free of having jackasses constantly berate them because they may not be doing the best DPS humanly possible in Antitower Roulette.
    I would be ok with this suggestion. Or just a personal parser everywhere. Surely tight-knit savage teams trust each other enough to not lie about their numbers? Either way, I don't really care what goes on in the end-game circles as long as it doesn't drip down to casual content. "Git gud or be called out (and you have only yourself to blame for being picked on)" as Seraphix so eloquently put it, is exactly the type of attitude I don't want to see imposed on anyone during my time in-game, and I'll happily avoid harder content to save myself from that cringe fest.

    By the way I liked your post, because you are one of the few people to take into account the concerns of both sides without dismissing them as irrelevant or deflecting an issue by bringing up another. A lot of the time people talk past each other when discussing parsers. Pro-parser people are worried about not clearing (in hard content), and anti-parser people are worried about increasing hostility or a more competitive atmosphere (in casual content). Understanding the environments where those concerns rise from is important when trying to find a solution that suits everyone. Seems we have reached a good compromise. Now I'm curious to see if my other prediction comes true.
    (2)
    Last edited by Reinha; 05-12-2016 at 07:57 AM.
    Graphics
    MSQ
    Viper

  2. #302
    Player
    Dement's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Dement Drachte
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 78
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinha View Post
    Or just a personal parser everywhere. Surely tight-knit savage teams trust each other enough to not lie about their numbers?
    While yes, tight-knit savage teams may not lie to each other or care, the problem with this arises from often times when a member of a static is missing you have to PUG from the general population or, alternatively, try the fights with a complete PF made party (especially happens in Extreme primals). You may get someone who knows what they're doing or you may get someone who is completely new and just wants to give it a try. One of the long time points of the pro-parser crowd is that if you build a PUG party that can't clear a DPS check, you don't have any official way of knowing who isn't pulling their weight. While I'm all for being inclusive, if someone is not capable enough at their job to meet an average DPS necessity of high-end content then they don't really have a place there until they can improve to a point of meeting said check.

    Now the typical counter-argument for this is "well what's average or what is the standard" but I feel that argument is assuming that people doing high end raids have never seen other people play or never pay attention to what others are getting. If a parser was available for high end content and I join a PUG and see a MCH doing 2000 DPS, I'm not automatically going to assume that 2000 DPS is the standard for MCH in that fight. If my next party the MCH is doing 800 DPS, I will reasonably assume that one of them was incredibly skilled and doing very high DPS and the other is doing very low DPS with the average right around 1300. After 5 or 10 runs in which I have a MCH in my group, I will have a general idea of how much a MCH is able to do and be able to judge accordingly if someone isn't quite up to snuff from there on out. This would only be further aided by everyone having the parsing data and therefore being to ask your FC members or LSes what their average MCH has historically gotten if you feel the one in your group is not contributing to a DPS check.

    Again I'm not advocating that person be disbarred from the fight forever; however, it's usually pretty clear that the party isn't going to pass a DPS check with a person who is consistently far below average. This would be a good time to remove said person which admittedly may be an ugly affair but the removed person would have empirical evidence that they need to practice their rotation and, whether it was stated nicely or meanly, they would at least walk out with knowledge of what their class should be doing DPS wise. Then they could turn to training dummies which would also be able to tell them their DPS and work on rotations until they are doing better and can try joining a group again. The glory of this is that once you have this information and know your rotation, you'll learn your proper rotation and shouldn't ever be kicked from a party again.... unless you can't get mechanics but that's far outside the parser debate.
    (0)

  3. #303
    Player
    Seraphix2407's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Arawn Wymer
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Xlantaa View Post
    Could be a posibility have the parsers only active on the higher level contents and in SSS and dummies. Should be more than enough and probably will avoid unnecesary conflics with casual players that doesn't care high level stuff (yes, casual players has rights too).
    That's fine or group parsers. I mean the real thing here is, parsers are only used proppely during extremes or savage (raiding), most people gives a shit about 24 man or dungeons tbh. I know those people exist but there aren't many tbh. And if casuals or whatever people call them, I know many of them don't raid so they wouldn't even be called out. It's usually fights like extremes or savage they are called out on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinha View Post
    By the way I liked your post, because you are one of the few people to take into account the concerns of both sides without dismissing them as irrelevant or deflecting an issue by bringing up another. A lot of the time people talk past each other when discussing parsers. Pro-parser people are worried about not clearing (in hard content), and anti-parser people are worried about increasing hostility or a more competitive atmosphere (in casual content). Understanding the environments where those concerns rise from is important when trying to find a solution that suits everyone. Seems we have reached a good compromise. Now I'm curious to see if my other prediction comes true.
    You are soo right about this post, so I have to agree with it. However, don't get me wrong but many pro parser people care less about dungeons or void ark. This is mainly primals or raids that this usually happens. Because that's where you really have to play well. Problem as someone else mentioned before, there is a huge gap between content and many who maybe want to try the new primals for example and not raid and many things in games are faceroll content so kinda need to blame on SE for that part too .
    (0)
    Last edited by Seraphix2407; 05-12-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #304
    Player
    Kazumac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    385
    Character
    Kha'tan Moapaln
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 67
    Quote Originally Posted by Dement View Post
    snip
    The only issue I have with that is that it leaves people like me and my FC out when it comes to improving and measuring that improvement. (not a savage raider and doesn't always clear EX primals as an FC). We'd still for the most part be left with using a 3rd party app to measure our personal advancement. If you augmented your suggestion with an always available personal parser I'd be more amenable to the suggestion.
    (1)

  5. #305
    Player
    Rita1989's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    632
    Character
    Nenemi Nemi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 40
    Would like to have a personal parser in all content and party parser for raids where it is legitimatly needed.

    my PC can't run a parser without major lag so it sucks having to rely on someone else to get my DPS.
    (0)

  6. #306
    Player
    Voltyblast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    735
    Character
    Rama Kagon
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    I just want to say something about those who are against parsers: I do run one myself, I often see "baddies" in my runs, and you know what I do to those who have bad dps?

    Nothing.

    What, did you expect me to say "I call them out"? I couldn't care less if they are bad or not: I'm doing my job and they should do theirs. I could perhaps tell them the situation but I don't want to risk it. Plus I don't care...but if some people do, parsers are just a very good way to do that (or asking someone who has). I'd be glad to help if someone asks me to check them out but only if they ask me.

    My reason for parsing it's just for testing my dps and that's -it- and thanks to -it- I managed to enjoy dpsing more than before, since I always thought that my dps was very low despite doing all rotations fine. The moment I saw my damage after a run I was really really happy to see that my efforts weren't pointless! I bet a lot of people have that feeling too.

    I get it folks, I get it: people can abuse parsers but please stop this phobia of abuse, because this is what it is in essence: a phobia. People are just afraid of "intoxicating" the community without realizing that we already have people abusing other features that are actually official! ("cough" housing "cough" ilvl "cough" trading "cough" you name it)

    Give parsers a chance before already saying that it's bad.
    (9)
    Last edited by Voltyblast; 05-12-2016 at 10:01 AM.

  7. #307
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    4,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Voltyblast View Post
    a phobia of abuse.
    It's not really a phobia when it's has visible effects even in it's non official form. It's like telling someone they have a phobia of gunshot wounds because they don't want to get shot.
    (5)

  8. #308
    Player
    Asmodai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    121
    Character
    Nyx Dorne
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    You know what this thread tells me? That the people who dont want parsers are a very vocal minority.
    (10)

  9. #309
    Player
    Kerii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    362
    Character
    Rune Venil
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Uh... 273 people isn't a majority out of a possible 600,000 or more players.


    Edit: Citation for my comment.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...l_census_time/
    (2)
    Last edited by Kerii; 05-12-2016 at 10:56 AM.

  10. #310
    Player
    Rawrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Sir Rawrz
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerii View Post
    Uh... 273 people isn't a majority out of a possible 600,000 or more players.


    Edit: Citation for my comment.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...l_census_time/
    The entire time that this has been up, the votes have stayed within a proportionate range to each other. Not so much a census on if we should have a parser, but how much of the populationis concerned by them. How many people are active on the forums each day? How many people voted? This shows that people are interested in whether a parser could be added and that developers could take the next step and ask players on a wider scale, whether this type of add-on support, would be *ba-dunce* supported.
    (7)

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