Would you like an in-game parser?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

And I'm glad you are honest about it. My bad giving myself ideas how you are as a player, but don't get me wrong when I say this, but ''usually'' when people wrote down what you did, they usually give a rats ass about other players by still playing on a lower level without even trying. Now about the parser, I wish there was one on ps4/pc official, maybe a closed one so you can see your own dps and improve, that's what most people do and it helps alot. I made a few people start and it helps them alot. However what if some people don't wanna try get better? The problem will remain with or without parsers, the only good thing making one official is where people who are on consoles have a chance to use it, instead of asking a pc player all the time? Or simply because many are afraid using a parser and then they really wanna use one thats available?

As for people using it for the opposite purpose, talking people down, I do agree there, I've seen it happen and it still happens. I mentioned this as well and that's a big problem. I also stated there are peopel who are more than willing to get better but there are also people who simply tells you to ''fuck off'' because it's how they play and it suits them. Yes they have the right to play however they want, but if they are playing in groups, that sort of attitude doesn't help at all, and I've seen that much as those prics who call out bad dps looking at their parser, hell might even seen those bad people having a shit fit more than those prics calling out peoples numbers just to be an ass.

And my bad taking decision on what type of player you are or not.

I appreciate the acknowledgement.

As I mentioned prior to your post, while leery, I would not be opposed to a personal (self only) parser that had no "announce to chat" option. Such a thing could be used by players for personal betterment without clogging chat with unnecessary chatter. One of the things I dislike about parsers that show you everyone's numbers is that it often turns a "cooperative" situation (a raid for instance), into a "competitive" one (dps trying to one up each other). And while some amount of competition can be healthy it often leads to players making reckless decisions for the betterment of their personal numbers at the cost of the overall group's performance. I dislike chat announcements because you inevitably end up with:

The "star of the show!" player who asks "anyone have meters?" only when they've topped them and they clearly have their own but want someone other than themselves to post it to chat.

The ever classic "elitist jerk" player who tells those who do poorly just how bad they are and that they should just quit the game cause there's no hope for them to be anything but bad. Never once offering any sort of constructive criticism or advice on how to improve.

These types of behavior are most typically seen in dungeon/small party level content where bleeding edge performance isn't required and some players are still learning about the game. I particularly dislike the second type of player because I don't like seeing players attacked because they might not be the best, in content that doesn't require the best, and contribute no worthwhile feedback to help others improve. It's akin to putting together a group requiring everyone to have an ilvl above 200... for an instance that has a min ilvl requirement of 180 and only drops 195 loot. Which is ridiculous.

Heck even in our pleasant community we have bad apples. I primarily heal as SCH (and lately WHM) in this game. I had a Snowcloak run where the tank was obviously not confident in his tanking ability. He kept his pulls small and sometimes lost aggro on a mob which came to me but he was quick to pick them back up. While this run wasn't the fastest I've had, there were no wipes and no deaths. At the end of the run the BLM in the party says in chat something along the lines of "You should give up tanking you're horrible at it." and leaves the dungeon. THAT was his "contribution". I can only imagine what he'd say to other dps if he had meters to see "how much better he is than them". That's what I want to avoid in ffxiv.

[Kaurie]

There will never be official numbers posted. EVER. SSS tells you if you are doing enough dps to complete an encounter before enrage mechanics happen. Parsers - tell you what your dps is. You know what DPS stands for right? Damage Per Second? All they are doing is giving a numerical value to the exact same thing that SSS does.. just SSS doesn't show numbers. It just says "pass" or "fail." In the end, that's all you need.

You are right, they likely will never have official numbers. It's a shame though, as I feel it would help this game and its playerbase immensely.

I realize what DPS stands for, and the numerical number is useful. I mean it's similar to any sort of numerical measure of something. "I know that when I drive home, it takes 10 minutes" vs "I drove 100 kph on my way home". Obviously, the reasoning for those values are very different than in the game - where you don't want to go too fast to stay within legal limits or close to, whether your concern is for safety or for avoiding tickets.

In terms of the game, DPS meters are useful for guaguing how your damage changes based on encounters and your changes within those encounters. During SSS, sure you can pull whatever DPS - great job. That isn't going to show if it is actually better to save your cooldowns for when Twinkledinks is large or small in A5S (note that it appears it is not better to save your cooldowns and to use them when you can). It won't show you how your numbers change when you adjust your rotation on Ravana ex with the damage up/down buffs. It won't show how your numbers change when you have to swap between AoE/single target for add phases. It won't show how your numbers change as you are doing mechanics. ... and so on.

SSS has one use, and that is to see if you are worthy of attempting content or not. It doesn't actually help you improve yourself within said content. It also doesn't help your team understand what needs to be addressed when not meeting DPS checks. An interesting aside, hard DPS checks are extremely prevalent in this game, which seems counter-intuitive given the stance on parsers.

From my personal experience, I've only seen SSS used as a "I beat A8S dummy! \o/" announcements via FC chat. Often these are announcement by people who actively parse on PC. Players on PS4 that I know don't even know where SSS even is. A NIN in my static, for example, was asking me just the other day - and he actively works to improve his numbers.

As one final aside:

You know what DPS stands for right? Damage Per Second?

That's not something you say to someone, unless you are genuinely concerned and you phrase it more respectfully. It's a very rude way of disagreeing with someone.

While not exactly the same thing Rawrz was referencing, it's the same idea. When you are asking these questions, you are phrasing it in a way that is extremely condescending and rude, rather than honest and helpful.

[azlewood]

nope definately not

i second the motion

[Seraphix2407]

That's what I want to avoid in ffxiv.

I agree alot of what you said, so no doubt we are somewhat on the same page. As you mentioned people will be competive but so much the chat will be spammed it? Doubt it. It can happen but not much as you say.
And about that snowcloak run I totally agree. I've had my share of runs where the runs are insanly slow but I don't care as I see they are either new or never played that class, however not so long ago, few weeks ago when I first got my whm to 60, I was lvling in aery and I was dpsing the adds to make the run faster, the tank lets me die because he cant hold aggro againts my holy. Keep in mind he never died in that run. I know this is nothing about parsing or dps meter, but to respond to what you said, no you don't need to be the worlds best to play a dungeon, I'm aware there are new players or people who simply aren't as used to the class they are playing. But when you have mulitply of 60's and then have a hard time holding aggro? I somehow expect people to play somewhat good or decent when they been doing the same thing for ages. Isn't why we play games? Being better is fun and beating stuff in it is amazing? Or is that spirit gone for most players. Yes I do know people are having fun in their own way and how they beat content. But when they come and say they can't beat it and then are aware they are the bad grass that's another story. I will keep it simple so sorry for the long reply but yes I do agree with what you said.

[Dorander]

snip.

All that comes from just 'doing' the dungeon. Again, you don't even need a parser to tell you those things. As a dps, your cooldowns should be used as much as possible. Sitting on them, for any length of time is a waste. Only in certain circumstances do you hold off till something is over. You don't need a parser to tell you that. SSS gives you exactly what the devs want you to know: Can you, in your current gear and with your standard rotation, defeat this encounter? No? Get better gear/work on your standard rotation. Yes? Go have fun.

And as I said to Rawrz. That's the point. Amazing you picked up on that. /eyeroll

[TheGrimace]

Yes, I would like a large fry. Hold the salt.

[Kaurie]

All that comes from just 'doing' the dungeon. Again, you don't even need a parser to tell you those things. As a dps, your cooldowns should be used as much as possible. Sitting on them, for any length of time is a waste. Only in certain circumstances do you hold off till something is over. You don't need a parser to tell you that. SSS gives you exactly what the devs want you to know: Can you, in your current gear and with your standard rotation, defeat this encounter? No? Get better gear/work on your standard rotation. Yes? Go have fun.

That is not always the case, certain encounters promote sitting on your cooldowns. For example, in Bismark Extreme, you should save Raging Strikes for the Snakes (I mean when it was a relevant DPS check). In Ravana, using your cooldowns when he has the Sword buff instead of the Shield dramatically increases your overall damage output. Parsers help you test out different strategies and see how it affects things. It also helps you see stuff for your team, back to Bismark for example, in that you could see that as a team you are dying on the snakes. However, everyone on the team floored the SSS (hypothetically), so what gives? Oh this handy parser is showing that DPS#1 is using all his cooldowns right at the start and his DPS drops dramatically during the Snake phase. Then you can easily address it. Can you address stuff without a parser? Yes. However, it is a tool that helps.

The SSS does nothing to translate your ability to DPS in an actual encounter with mechanics, or know how/when to use your cooldowns, among other things.

And as I said to Rawrz. That's the point. Amazing you picked up on that. /eyeroll

...

[Rawrz]

...

Agreed.

I remember when I was first doing ravana and bismark. The carapice sometimes was an issue to break. Back then I was doing the standard rotation in every encounter. Bio II, miasma, bio, aero, shadowflare, because they were my highest potency attacks. Many groups could not clear the carapice. I wondered, am I doing this right? I wrote down every skill a SCH had and made a chart on how effective each skill was over time. You could see how Bio and Aero shine in burst phases, by the graph. Instead, using the data, I would bio, ED, aero, swift, ED, Broil, ED/aetherflow, Broil spam instead in that 18 second window. Figuring out that, increased the success rate of my parties. If I could have used a parser to see how low my damage was on the target, I probably would have been able to improve sooner.

This trial was a real cornerstone to how I DPS. Without it, I would never have developed the way I dps now.

[pushin_tin]

As an AST, I wouldn't know who to give Arrow or Balance if I can't see the DPS of my party members.

To clarify, I personally would love a public meter, but as you can see from this thread most players do not want any chance of their DPS being evaluated. A personal meter is a compromise that even the staunchest anti-parse person cannot provide a valid argument against.

[WeekendSoja]

Just /kill thread lol and keep status quo...people will continue to parse unbeknownst to others, the non-parsing community will be quietly ostracized from progression groups as is what happens on all servers regardless (noted: even if you do not condone parsing, doesnt mean you don't do too dps, and parsers will not mention anything and potentially keep you in the group). Only thing here to make not of, is a good percentage of the non-parsing community is never going to be progression material. As is the status quo...sad to say, but it's like a professor allowing you to use a cheat sheet to do an exam, why hate on a nice resource because of "harassment, ill-mannered opinions, and judgemental behavior"?

Short answer...because the ff community needs to argue about something lol, could be a perfectly nice day outside and somebody here will be like, "I see a cloud in the distance..." Lol