Would you like an in-game parser?

[odintius]

I say yes but only with premade groups and not with random pug groups that were the abuse I see it come from /shrug duty finder is a blessing and curse at the same time IMO :P

[Andevom]

More people just replying that they don't want it, in the thread itself. I put it as the second post so people who didn't want it, could easily vote that. I just don't understand how 20~40 people can vote yes for a parser and yet only 3 people have voted no. There doesn't need to be an explanation, towards getting a parser or why not to add one.

Well, look at it this way. If they weren't replying, this thread would just sink down into oblivion within an hour or two.

[otarolgam]

Parsing in Savage and Extreme Primals, nothing else.

Otherwise, it'd just be used for harassment if it could be used for all instances.

[Reinha]

And these two beliefs are the reason why this argument for/against in-game parsers never gets anywhere and goes on for 20+ pages when the thread is made. The side for parsers tends to feel that it's an important tool for players to better themselves and the opposition are seen as lazy people afraid of being called-out for doing minimal effort and get "carried," whilst those against in-game parsers are convinced it will be another tool for harassment and elitism and the opposition are elitist jerks who want to single-out everyone who doesn't meet their obnoxiously high criteria.

Both sides are capable of over-exaggerating the stance of the opposition.

The pro-parser argument can be achieved without making the parser public. If you get numbers, you can 1) compare to online guides or forums, 2) ask your friends, 3) ask your party what they are getting, 4) go to a website where people upload their official parses and find out the 80th percentile for a certain fight, 5) ask Idyllshire what is good dps or 6) compare to your previous results. Or any combination of those.

For what I've seen in these topics. The reasons people argue against a personal parser are either not wanting it to distract themselves (even though they could turn it off), clutter the UI (they could turn it off), witnessing the server culture become dps-oriented (it already is to a degree) and being required to share their results (this is actually a likely scenario but shouldn't be an issue if they are doing well). And the other side wanting a public parser instead so they can single out low dps players (if it's official then the topic of dps numbers in no longer taboo or ban worthy), kick them (sometimes despite being able to clear), laugh at them (hey it's only human nature, right?), offer unsolicited criticism (regardless of weather the performance is typical of that player or some fluke), and to find easy scapegoats when the group dies (regardless of whether it was mechanics or actual lack of dps). I have seen all those and don't kid yourselves: nobody would ever get banned for harassment because it all falls under "playstyle differences". Yet when the number of (public) parser users increases, so will the number of jerks using parsers. The more drivers there are, the more bad drivers there are in a city. Therefore the number of people upset by those jerks will also increase. The number of car accidents is greater with more bad drivers in the city.

Self improvement is the only good effect without downsides that a parser can achieve and that's where a personal parser would really help the people who are not satisfied with SSS. Any other reason to have a (public) parser comes with negative effects of some kind, like someone getting upset. In a game. Which is supposed to be fun. These conversations never go anywhere because people refuse to see the other side and anytime a couple of talkers find compromise (personal parser or opt-in premade group parser), someone else butts in and starts it again with a nice inflammatory "I should be able to enforce my standards and comments on other people in all content" or "no one should be able to see if they are getting better".

Just watch this thread and you'll see.

Oh and BUMP, you're welcome OP.

[WeekendSoja]

Both sides are capable of over-exaggerating the stance of the opposition.

This is correct.

If anything, the anti-parser party has more to gain from this than the pro-parser community...why you ask...SE has always been the "good 'ol boy" type of corporation. If someone said you looked like a clown and you took offense, suspension, it's really simple. The pro-parser group would take a serious hit it this was implemented with SE's zero-tolerance stance on belittling and bullying. Though the scope excludes RMT since that's just a plague. The stigma of harassment for this would cause this game to become completely casual, a hardcore would only allow himself to hit GM jail for so many times. Who remembers FFXI's 3 hour GM jail time!? I don't, I was a good kid lmao but I have heard this treatment cause hardcore a to either quit or completely stop their abusive "criticism".

[Seraphix2407]

So its alright to tell em? No. If somebody told me my dps suck then i would be mad and sad and less motivated to play the game cuse of the stupid parsers of theirs.

I bet you were newbeginner too and had no experience.. Unless you took ur time watching some guides in yt.
They gain experience by doing it tho. Like i did loool. Oft.

I would just say your dps is low, I wouldnt say suck but low. If its low and it's still low after someone tell you nicely its low and need to fix the rotation, that one is on you.

Right? I'll never understand that attitude. "Wahhh! Someone told me my DPS is bad so I quit!" ... errr how about you just get better? Go check the official forums or do a google search to find a guide on your class, read up, and practice? o.O

I'm not the best Monk, but I've been practicing and boy does the improvement show. ^^

My thoughts. Problem with the parser is, yes someone will abuse the living shit out of it and probably mock players they are bad. Keep in mind no one is perfect and everyone can improve each time they play, well for those who think it's fun being better and knowing their class and play it optimized. Then you have the players who are playing bad but willing to play better so they are willing to take tips and guides from other players (mad respect to those btw, met few of them and I'm so happy you take advice and willing to get better). Then you have those who are going to say, don't be mean, otherwise I will be sad or rage at you. Problem is, yes I do know there are people who will tell you to fuck off sadly because your dps is low, that is wrong, however people should tone it down and say, yes you need to somehow fix your dps and maybe rotation? Like opener and the actuall rotation after an opener? Many times I've sad that to players and oh boy the amazing feedback I get. Not only did they increase their dps, they are soo much more happy knowing they pulling off amazing dps and helping the group, yes by playing your class very very good!

Then you have those who are simply telling me to fuck off and say it's their sub and game. What's most toxic? The guy who tells you in a nice way how to improve your dps in a nice manner way, even putting time to show you them your own rotation, or the player who simply tells you to fuck off?

I got my own opinion right there but I simply won't say it as it should be obvious. Either way sorry for the derail on topic, I wish there was a parser built in game but honestly a personal one would be better simply because it will be mostlikely less harrasment but then again how can we excactly know if they are doing bad or not? There is a big chance many will use it but then wont care they do bad, that's a risk too.

[Jpec07]

Right? I'll never understand that attitude. "Wahhh! Someone told me my DPS is bad so I quit!" ... errr how about you just get better? Go check the official forums or do a google search to find a guide on your class, read up, and practice? o.O

In my experience, it's almost never the feedback on performance that's the problem, but the way in which that feedback is given. There's a world of difference between: "/p omg Joe Averagenoob only did 900 DPS on that fight. What a losernoob. Vote kick and git gud." and "/tell Joe Averagenoob Hey, I noticed your DPS was a little low compared to what I've seen. Would you like some pointers to help you perform better, or a guide to help you better understand your job?"

More often, I've seen parsers lead to the former kind of behavior than the latter.

[zmandude24]

Sure why not because it worked out well for the WoW community. I hear people saying they were flamed for low dps in an easy dungeon that takes 10 minutes to clear, not to mention the fact that no one pays attention to raid mechanics in that game due to needing to top the dps meters. Although a personal dps meter is a great idea to gauge how well you are playing your class if you look up guides that show what you should be doing at your level/gear.

[dekal]

This will be useful for all. I don't think a lot of us give a bad feedback and well as not all of us take criticism as something good cuz they don't want to be pointed out their errors.

We even have this problem that is not just in game but in our daily routine. People will abuse it or will exaggerate and/or accuse others of abusing it cuz of customer/traditions on how our society is rule by.

[Rawrz]

Sure why not because it worked out well for the WoW community. I hear people saying they were flamed for low dps in an easy dungeon that takes 10 minutes to clear, not to mention the fact that no one pays attention to raid mechanics in that game due to needing to top the dps meters. Although a personal dps meter is a great idea to gauge how well you are playing your class if you look up guides that show what you should be doing at your level/gear.

If you fail mechanics, because you're trying to keep up with your dps, your dps will be low... because death... No one cares if you did 1700 dps in that one phase, if you didn't even clear with that dps. A parser can even show you if someone died, trying to reach that dps. Your goal should be, as much dps as I can squeeze without endangering the raid's/party's success.

I do understand your concern for extremists.