Would you like an in-game parser?

[Seraphix2407]

Well clearly we could've killed the boss 5 seconds faster if the healer DPS'd harder. /snark

How could my group of 7 people kill sephirot 2 min faster than a 4 dps group? And we are in the same gear, I'm waiting for you to explain.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

How could my group of 7 people kill sephirot 2 min faster than a 4 dps group? And we are in the same gear, I'm waiting for you to explain.

Familiarity with the content to the degree that you could probably do it in your sleep vs a group of players that don't know the content or haven't memorized every singleminutiae, causing deaths and lost dDPS by mistakes that add up over the course of the instance. Not sure! I can't think of any reason in particular.

[Reynhart]

Read my post again.

Unless the first part of your post is for me too, the "slacking" part is the answer you gave to me.

Why you nitpick thats okay everybody can see when a tank or a healer is failing to do its job?

Do you see exatcly how much damage the tank took ? Do you see exactly how much healing everyone received ? Do you see how overheal everyone received ?
Having a parser does not show if the DPS are failing to do their job. If your party does not meet the DPS checks, you'll realize very soon. What the parser can show, and why I don't really like them, is how above the DPS are succeeded, and how that "above" can be not enough for some.

Since you're a healer, let me ask you this. You're in a 8-man party. The fights goes with no death, but, in the end, you realize the other healer healed for a noticeable amount below you. Would you say that he failed at his job ?

How could my group of 7 people kill sephirot 2 min faster than a 4 dps group? And we are in the same gear, I'm waiting for you to explain.

Better knowledge of the fight, better coordination with people you're used to raid with, jobs not optimized for the raid, and yes, gap in player skill.
But, among all that, I should also say...why does it matter ? Didn't they kill it too ?

[KonOkami]

snip

Even with a personal parser the information will be out there and whoever wants to improve will have the tools to do so, easier than he/she can now. All they have to do is ask around or look up guides which will undoubtedly include that if it's implemented. What a group parser does is not tell you how you are doing but tell everyone how you are doing. And the ones that do so badly that they're nowhere near "Average" play can be spotted and singled out in casual content easily where you're much more relaxed than Ex/Savage that requires a different kind of focus. Group parsing in that content will only help in highlighting those people that perform slightly worse than they could.
Again, I'm not saying all instances of group parsing is bad, on the contrary it's a very useful tool, but that it should be implemented under a set of specific conditions like premade groups.

snip

Yeah, but if they have the personal parser and still don't care what is gonna magically change their mind and they'll start to care if that's a group parse? They already know their performance is shit and just wanna leech from you. A group parse won't change that. It will just justify kicking them from the party for those that feel bad to do so without something concrete(and they should be kicked with or without parser). Again, not talking about the people putting an effort, trying advise given to them and still not attaining "godlike" performances, talking about those people with horrible performance that show no indication of wanting to better it to at least average.
Also if you read my earlier posts our suggestion is exactly the same. Optional parser in premades(+hideable personal parser everywhere imo)

[Launched]

Since you're a healer, let me ask you this. You're in a 8-man party. The fights goes with no death, but, in the end, you realize the other healer healed for a noticeable amount below you. Would you say that he failed at his job ?

Most content only needs 1 healer 90% of the time. If he was DPSing while I was healing, I'd be fine with that. If he was standing around doing nothing, I'd say he wasn't doing his job so I'd start DPSing myself to try and make him do some work.

[Seraphix2407]

Better knowledge of the fight, better coordination with people you're used to raid with, jobs not optimized for the raid, and yes, gap in player skill.
But, among all that, I should also say...why does it matter ? Didn't they kill it too ?

You just proved my point. You just really did without realizing it. You see, just because you killed it, doesn't mean you did great hell even decent. I've put same lower dps in sephirot and we got enrage. I put one of the lowe dps in my own group and we killed it 2 min ahead of the enrage. Get my point? Many farm parties have gotten enrage because the dps wasn't enough and they all have gotten over 15-20 kills. But once they all gather in same party (low dps) they get enrage. This is my term of ''slack''. If you kill something doesn't mean you are great enough to do it with 3 other low dps people. Enrages speaks for itself.

Familiarity with the content to the degree that you could probably do it in your sleep vs a group of players that don't know the content or haven't memorized every singleminutiae, causing deaths and lost dDPS by mistakes that add up over the course of the instance. Not sure! I can't think of any reason in particular.

Keep in mind,many have killed it more than me if not much as me, so that leaves them having same knowledge as me in the fight. Losing 300-500 dps isnt a mistake, that screams you don't know rotation or you simply don't merge your rotation with the fight. Oh hold on, I thought SSS could do that?

[Reiryuu]

we killed it 2 min ahead of the enrage

Who cares? A win is still a win.

[Seraphix2407]

Who cares? A win is still a win.

And this is where I have to stop you. I had 4 guys in my last party with over 7 weapons. They had all gotten most of it from tokens, but we got enrage. They killed it over 50-60 times and we stil got enrage? Care to explain? Also 1 death. Everyone is above ilvl 225 and ilvl 230 weapons. Please feel free to explain why it happened. It actually happened 2 times a row before we gave up.
Just because you did the fight in another group doesn't mean you didn't get ''carried'' by other peoples dps. A great example is what I just said, you put 4 low dps people together and they get enrage. How exactly is it fair for 1 guy to sit and slack and take loot? My mom taught me something very importent when I was a kid and same with my grandma who took good care of me:
Respect goes both ways and don't be selfish and think of yourself. Many are too selfish, it's always about someones feeligns. Before anyone joins a party with a low dps, think before you do, this post is a bit harsh and I know it, but I have to say it. Think before you join anyone. Being more dead weight than anything else and take loot from people. If anyone wants to slack, go to a group who do the same, and I'm well aware that you wont even get the kills you want.

[KonOkami]

Since you're a healer, let me ask you this. You're in a 8-man party. The fights goes with no death, but, in the end, you realize the other healer healed for a noticeable amount below you. Would you say that he failed at his job ?

Lemme try and answer this one. It depends on what he did while he/she wasn't healing. If he/she was standing there spamming a cure every 5 secs and that's it, yes they're an utter failure of a healer regardless of clear or not. If however they used some mitigation skills, DPSed, were removing debuffs and generally contributing to the fight without standing there looking pretty then no, they did not fail. Imo there's only 2 ways a healer "fails". A) If there are consecutive wipes and an inability to clear when everyone else is performing well enough(popping cds etc. while the dps are at good numbers) and following mechanics(aka minimizing damage done) B) When they repeatedly spend more than 2-3secs without casting anything when there's no mp issues and/or movement mechanics involved

[Reynhart]

Most content only needs 1 healer 90% of the time. If he was DPSing while I was healing, I'd be fine with that. If he was standing around doing nothing, I'd say he wasn't doing his job so I'd start DPSing myself to try and make him do some work.

And the same in fights like A1S, what would you say ?

You just proved my point. You just really did without realizing it.

And you proved mine. You would have parsed on that fight, and called out the DPS for being lazy or slacking, even though they won the fight. You shouldn't, they did enough.

I've seen farm parties messing with their DPS too sometimes, because mistakes happen. I've also seen farm parties screw mechanics they have dealt with dozens of time before, or just making a wrong decision, because mistakes happen.

Besides, a parser does not tell you what you did wrong, it only tells you that you did. If you don't bring a solution, then calling for the problem doesn't help.

If however they used some mitigation skills, DPSed, were removing debuffs and generally contributing to the fight without standing there looking pretty then no, they did not fail.

Does a parser tell you that ? Does a parser tell you how many damage the DPS dodged ? Or how he ran around the arena to help someone on a add or to freeze a tornado because no ranged DPS bothered to do so ? Or how many DPS a SMN lost by raising several people in a row ? Or if the PLD needed some MP back so he kept using Riot Blade for several seconds ?