Would you like an in-game parser?

[Reynhart]

I would remind people that as long as you dont say you use a parser SE doesnt care so people who want one can have it they just have to be silent about it ans draw their conclusions based on their analyze .. dont see the need to have one advertised by SE.

Because console players can't rely on mods.

[Seraphix2407]

It's still their choice. Only the game can enforce something on them, not the players. The solution is to gate the content more. That's the purpose of "minimum ilvl required", too.

Which is totally fine with me as I have stated, I just find it shady. However, I wish people have more positive sides of learning their classes or pulling enough weights on it. As much as I would love to teach a whole group how to dps or do mechanics, I have my limits. I was helping a group for 3 hours once and we barely saw any progression, makes me think I wasted my time, but same time not, because I was there willing to wipe for ages. Some in that group sadly refused to listen and we didn't kick them either to see if they actually did better, which never happened. But gate content, would love more of that tbh. I agree very much of that!

[NoahArks]

Rather not. I just returned after like a 6 month break and everyone in the party would know how bad my rotation is right now, hehe.

[Lambdafish]

Rather not. I just returned after like a 6 month break and everyone in the party would know how bad my rotation is right now, hehe.

But why is your rotation bad? Because you haven't had the time to learn and improve and develop your muscle memory is my assumption. A really useful tool for seeing your progress first hand is a parser. You can use it to test out different rotations during fights, and evaluate what is good and bad (when I did this, I saw that I had higher numbers, I should do that in future). Without a parser all you are doing is hiding a bad rotation, rather than actively bettering it.

[loreleidiangelo]

Rather not. I just returned after like a 6 month break and everyone in the party would know how bad my rotation is right now, hehe.

I haven't played in about 3 months and I'd still think it's a welcome change.

[Lambdafish]

sorry about the double post, but I felt this needed it's own post.

I have been doing some thinking about this. Bad players tend to fit into 3 categories:
a) Bad players that are unaware that they are bad
b) Bad players that know they are bad but are struggling/don't know how to improve
c) Those who cannot be helped ("I pay my sub so I can play how I want even if it means wasting your time" or "The 'elitist' who is actually bad" etc.)

I have thought about a way in which we can fix A and B, and by doing so we create an openness towards C that discourages the behavior.

The two step solution would be to:

1) Implement a personal parser for all endgame content. This is unnecessary at low levels as the numbers are skewed due to available skills and the purpose of these early levels are to familiarise players with their job and skills and learn how the job functions rather than how to play the job to its fullest potential. As well as this, an optional global parser will be available for PF and raid finder groups exclusively for savage raiding (maybe for ex primals but debatable) which would be an opt in process as part of registering for the duty. The global parser will not be available when (if?) the savage raids go into DF. Edit: Bullying someone to get personal parser numbers would be taken seriously would count as harassment in the eyes of GMs

This fixes the problems for player A, and potentially makes them a player B. To fix this the second part is:

2) Expand the mentor system with a new network. The novice network is fine for what it does, it aids new players who know nothing about the game, but does nothing for experienced players who are just bad. Which is why I propose two things:
A) a brand new network for endgame players, it is opt in and is a public forum for players to ask questions without judgement in an environment where asking those kind of questions is expected.
B) New kinds of mentor: the job mentor. With this, we will see the name of the current mentor status changed to "Novice mentor" and players will be able to apply for individual job mentor status's (I could be a PLD mentor), this would be hard to obtain and require players to beat a lot of high level instances (similar to tank mounts) on that job, and will be a symbol that the player has reasonable knowledge of that job.

What all of this will allow is the following scenario. Playertype A uses a parser in conjunction with SSS and realises that they are aren't performing as well as they should be. They will join the new network and ask questions or request a mentor either in shout or in the network and can have the mentor send them a tell if they are embarressed. The mentor will help them fix their rotations, and give them advice on how to play the job better.

As for playertype C... No system is perfect but this system will expose them, and theres not a lot else that can be done.

[Krissey]

sorry about the double post, but I felt this needed it's own post.

I have been doing some thinking about this. Bad players tend to fit into 3 categories:
a) bad players that are unaware that they are bad
b) bad players that know they are bad but are struggling/don't know how to improve and
c) "I pay my sub so I can play how I want even if it means wasting your time"

There's 1 more group. The "elitist" bad player that think they're supa hot fire but are actually super bad. Rage at everyone else, think they're God's gift to the game, and refuse to take any criticism for improvement or otherwise.

They're basically the dunning krueger children - they think they are way better than they really are but have such huge egos you can't help them at all. They're in every game.

[Lambdafish]

There's 1 more group. The "elitist" bad player that think they're supa hot fire but are actually super bad. Rage at everyone else, think they're God's gift to the game, and refuse to take any criticism for improvement or otherwise.

They're basically the dunning krueger children - they think they are way better than they really are but have such huge egos you can't help them at all. They're in every game.

Nah, that's group C, but I can expand my explanation haha

[Krissey]

Nah, that's group C, but I can expand my explanation haha

Well I usually run into those players who know they're bad but they don't care. They know the suck, they know they're not playing right but "they're casual" or "it's just a game" or "Who cares, we're winning" etc... Like they objectively know they're trash they just can't be assed to do anything about it.

On the other hand the 4th group is both a and c combined. They DON'T know they're bad. They THINK they are amazing. But you can't tell them they're bad. Not because you can't talk about parsers or anything, but because they know better than you. They've been playing longer, are Diamond ELO, have beaten every savage raid, they're world first raiders and have better gear than you so shut up noob

[Lambdafish]

On the other hand the 4th group is both a and c combined. They DON'T know they're bad. They THINK they are amazing. But you can't tell them they're bad.

Then surely parser numbers will tell them otherwise. A global parser keeps them from getting away with it in raids, and a personal parser at least flashes their skill level in front of them, so they will either become a playertype B and actually realise how bad they are, or a playertype C in that they don't care what others think and there's no system in the world that could possibly help their ignorance.