Would you like an in-game parser?

[dragonseth07]

Yes it is.

Really? I can't kick Ice Mages? I have to sit there and wipe repeatedly because of their incompetence? I can't kick Bards who don't sing songs? I have to put up them doing nothing useful? It's not like these are players who just need some quick tips, and they go "Oh, sorry" and get it together. These are players who are terrible and looking for a free carry. We are not obligated to provide them with one.

If a group just can't make a DPS check on a fight, there are two options:

1. Disband
2. Replace players

2 is preferable, and only possible if you know who to replace.

[RobbieH]

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

[KarstenS]

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

We had already an official statement in the forum confirming this as a valid reason to kick.

Seems some already have forgotten this.

[RobbieH]

We had already an official statement in the forum confirming this as a valid reason to kick.

Seems some already have forgotten this.

I didn't say anything O_O

Anyway, valid reason or not is a dumb choice for a simple reason:

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

"Oh but there's guides", no there aren't, if you get a new patch and play the content on first few days there's no guides at all, when 3.4 launched there were no guides, only hours later written guides appeared, for example, for normal Alex.

People get kicked from normal Alex on first day, they won't learn, so they have to queue again and risk getting kicked again by doing the same mistake because they didn't learn it, and no one explained them either because they probably don't know as well.

Then people forget that not everyone is equally skilled and there's a big gap between skill level among players in this game, that why for World Firsts teams test (key word, test, hence need training and experience) to see who are the best players in the FC, or even the server is the players choose to join those FCs.

Kicking players while they are still learning is absolutely stupid even from an official perspective because if it happens too much (they're actually bad players) they'll give up on the game and subs will be lost for the sake of epeen that can't be bothered to help/explain people that are learning.

There i said something now.

[Legion88]

Anyway, valid reason or not is a dumb choice for a simple reason:

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

Counter example: What is with the 1-2-3-DDs? I don't feel like i should someone explain on 60 how a rotation works, because he had 60 levels just to read his skills and figure out a suboptimalbutgood rotation by himself or look for a job guide or ask people outside of the duties.

Playing poorly isn't "you lost enochian/BotD while learning the fight"*.
Playing poorly is "spamming Thrust-Combo/Ice Mage at 60"*.
*Just examples for this particular subject

[SpookyGhost]

Kicking players that are doing a bad job, example, their first time playing that content and they're doing poorly is simply stupid because they have to learn it, if they get kicked how will they learn?

Agreed, though generally as long as you say "first time" you're held to a lower standard than a person who's cleared/has experienced the whole fight.

Is everyone else doing proper DPS in normal Alex? Then you shouldn't care about 1-2-3 DDs.

If you one-shot the encounter then there's no real way to kick a 1-2-3 DPS so they get a free pass. This, however, doesn't mean that it's okay for one member of the team to kick rocks while the rest of the team is putting in effort. It's like playing basketball and one of your team members decides he wants to do cartwheels - even if you win, it wasn't cool of that dude to goof off. XIV, and to an extent most modern MMOs, don't have a focus on teamwork anymore so people think that they don't need to work as a team. "Sure, DPS A isn't pulling his weight, but we beat the boss so why does it matter?", you think and then DPS A goes off to join other DF groups with more of his kind and then DPS A's mentality floods half a group forcing that group to constantly wipe because of them. Had they learned what they were doing wasn't a good thing they would actually try to improve, and if you can visually see that your DPS numbers are lower than the rest of the DPS you'll know exactly what you need to improve on.

Like I said if you're new to an encounter then it's fine to pull low numbers because you're learning the fight. Once you've cleared the fight, though, you should aim to be doing better at it - even in stuff like Alexander NM.

The problem here is, most healers won't DPS, MT won't change stances during certain parts where the boss isn't going to harm them, or can simply use DPS stance after aggro is secure and pop cooldowns to compensate, even most players who like to complain about bad players don't do this themselves, not to mention when the boss comes back and/or drops something that helps with DPS is for the MT to go directly in front of boss before Boss is available to target, since melee will probably be in positional spot already, not doing so will result in DPS loss caused by the MT, but this is something rarely seen, again we're talking about Normal, not Savage.

This is partly true, but partly wrong. Yes, healers should be DPSing, tanks should be stance dancing, etc. etc. But that doesn't excuse DPS to play poorly. As an example if you have proper healer DPS, proper tank DPS, and 3 out of your 4 DPS are doing alright... then that 4th one who's doing cartwheels is making the run slower, forcing you to see more mechanics, and increasing the odds that you'll wipe or someone will die to them. The shorter the fight, the better. With all those same conditions and all the DPS putting in work then you've got a much more stable, condensed fight that has a higher chance of getting beaten.

[Kosmos992k]

We had already an official statement in the forum confirming this

Kicking someone from a party for playing poorly isn't harassment.

as a valid reason to kick.

Seems some already have forgotten this.

Yes, and no. Someone deliberately playing poorly, someone deliberately not trying; in order to annoy others and disrupt their play is both a valid reason to kick and easily defended.

Not playing up to some arbitrary standard that you have in your head about how they should/should not play, isn't a valid reason to kick and you can be reported for griefing because you are disrupting another player's game.

I wish that people would listen, hear and understand when 'official' statements are made instead of only hearing what they want to hear.

Could poor play be a valid reason for kicking someone? Yes it could. Could being kicked because you don't meet someone's arbitrary standard of goodness be a valid reason for reporting someone for harassment? Yes it could.

I think everyone needs to think before kicking. Just because you can convince a majority of players in a party that it's easier to kick someone than continue with them, doesn't make you right. You have the ability to remove players, what matters is how you use that ability and when.

[Kaurie]

Could poor play be a valid reason for kicking someone? Yes it could. Could being kicked because you don't meet someone's arbitrary standard of goodness be a valid reason for reporting someone for harassment? Yes it could.

This depends on what you define as arbitrary. If, say, you are doing an ex primal. Your party finded group is failing a DPS check. You look at the parser and you see 4 DPS (will put them as relative values to top DPS, rather than an actual number). DPS 1: 100%, DPS 2: 95%, DPS 3: 93%, DPS 4: 63%. Would it be arbitrary to kick DPS4 in this situation, as you are missing a DPS check and they are clearly underperforming relatively to the rest of the party?

[LunarEmerald]

I don't see the harm in having a personal parser you can toggle on or off.

More choice is never a bad thing.

[Daranion]

We've gone over this time and time again. Kicking someone for playing poorly is perfectly allowed under difference of playstyle clause. If the kick passes, you were the minority.