Would you like an in-game parser?

[Xlantaa]

People want to get things done fast. Parsers are a tool within that purpose, but they are not the cause of it.

When I mention this, I was giving an example of how a uncommon thing in the beggining, can turn into a unavoidable rule for all. I wasn't suggesnting that parser are the cause of speedruns, jsut how a thing becomes more common.

I am of the belief that most players in this game are mature enough not to harass people with it. Right now, the only reason you can reasonably state "the only people who harass people about their DPS are people with parses", is because of the fact that only people with parsers can see dps numbers. It'd be impossible for anyone else to see. This also completely neglects the entire subsect of people who don't harass people while using a parser, or hell - like myself, even compliment others when we see amazing dps, and can use our parser to see without watching one person like a hawk that someone might be underperforming.

Of course, while I agree the DPS meters can help people to improve or allows players help others improve, the majority of community usually doesn't care about this players, or simply will ignore them or will try kick them. It is very usual that people even doesn't care in say "hello" at the beggining of a dungeon. Of course, I'm talking about random parties on duty finder, which is the issue who bother me. Between friends, the parse won't do anything bad.

But, my experience says that people like you and me, how are usually friendly, are very few. Most of the community doesn't care about others and I feel some of them want a parse to start discard a soon as possible the called "bad seeds", which I think is horrible.

I am not saying there is not people wishing to help others, of course there are. But they are a very, very low number compared which those who don't care about other ordirectly will harrass players instead of trying offer help. Also I agree that a lot of people refuses help, but we cannot punish all the casual who really can't improve (cause IRl or whatever) for this ones.

You have to accept you can never fully prevent harassment, and punishing the majority for the sake of preventing the minority will never be a good solution!

I have a different vision here, I think the majority of the player correspons to the "Don't care about others" group. I consider the averga player base very rude agains most of players, or just indiferente. I found really hard find nice people on random parites (of course, like I said before, this is all about the random parties on Duty Finder or party finder with people you don't know).

I think the player base need to mature a lot,and be the proper players who tell other "Hey, stop harras that player with numbers!". I rarely see a player defending other random player. If the player base agreed wich is the limit for parsing, will be the proper player base which auto-regulate the community, by not accpeting plyers who harras with number. I think that's very hard to happed.

Permit me to say, your english is quite beautiful. I would not of known it was 'bad' in your eyes less you said it, so - have some more confidence in yourself! Just be like "x3 Muh english is *****in'!'

Better don't hear me in Team Speak :P

PD: I wish more poeple were able to argumnet like you here isntead of just trying to ridiculize others like I read sometimes aroind here. You're a excelent example of debating.

[Reynhart]

We can't tell someone they're doing poorly, because of the fact that if we do, we run the risk of 'getting reported for using a parser.' Rather, because some players have chosen to weaponise this fact, players are unable to help eachother.

Actually, telling someone "You're doing poorly" doesn't make anything. Unless you can tell them how they can do better, then you're not really helping them.
And since a parser doesn't tell them what they can do better, its utility is also questionable.

You have to accept you can never fully prevent harassment, and punishing the majority for the sake of preventing the minority will never be a good solution!

But you don't have to legalize what those people use as harassment.

Here's a question : If that much people already use a parser, as some people claim, then why do they bother about having an official one ? If it's for personal progression, or to help friends improve, then they can use without fearing a report or a ban, right ?

[Seraphix2407]

Now, think on the casual palyers, This ones can improve, but some of the, just no, doesn' have time or they jsut want run a dungeon and do others things. This casualsprobably will rerepsent the 50% of the total players. Do you think is a good idea harras them in this way? If they see the game turn into a DPS race, they probalby won't continue playing. THat's less moeny for FFXIV. Guess who will pay the consequences and who will lose content...

I simply don't like the word elitist or casual, even that I've used the words few times in my post in this thread, just because people use them so they know who I talk about. I have people who study, works and do gym everyday. I have people who play 3 hours a day and study and do other stuff rest of the day? Does that mean they are casual? Keep in mind these players I talk about have beaten midas savage 1-2-3 hell even some beat m4. Some of them only log on to raid and that's it and raid days? My own group we do it 2-3 hours a day for 2-3 days a week. Because we simply have our own things to do to, but we are on midas 4 savage. Does this mean I'm casual? Because last time I checked beating savage (from what MOST people say) I'm a hardcore player, I'm hardcore for beating hard content. Nope nope. And then you have those who barely does battle content on my server and everyone on my server knows who and they know why they don't do it. RP, using the game as facebook/skype, crafting, vanity etc, you name it. Then you have these players who are logged on MORE than me? So they are hardcore because they log on more than me? As you mentioned they do few dungeons then do other stuff. We all know ''casuals'' represent a high majority of the playerbase, but also we know raiding scene isn't that big in this game either but there are serval reasons for that, because the game isn't built to have the biggest end game sceene either, due to lack of money to make the content and who know's they might keep it this way to focus on ''casuals''.

Anyways my point is, many people including myself don't care who RP, uses the game as a chat program or simply just won't do battle content, which I'm PRETTY sure many doesn't care about either.
I'm only mention those who actually wanna do primals or savage but can't pull their class/job off. There is this person who got into raiding midas savage 2 weeks ago. She works alot, needs to take care of her own mom, wake up super early everyday. Guess what, she beat midas 1 in a few days being only on for max 6 hours a week. 6 HOURS?!?!?!?.

I don't think putting a parser in game is not gonna make it worse for those who doesn't even do battle content or rarely do them as you mentioned. This game is even far from being a heavy battle content game anwyays. It's the same thing, weekly stuff>cap>log out. This game has much more focus on many other things which myself and very, very, very many likes to have in game. Even the top raiders or midicore ones just do weekly kills or some progression of they still on it then log out. Saying it will happen again, parser making the game worse like every other MMO is , to be honest bit silly.
I never played WoW and keep in mind that game is heavy on parsers and the game is still floating it's way. Maybe it's not good as it used to be due to content or how they deal with things? But I know for sure many still play it these days. That's like saying you are to expected bad players because 50% of the players are being bad in other MMO's. Which goes back to why we want a parser, since it will improve players. How can people fear of something when majority here even say they are doing good, but are afraid of it? To me it makes no sense. Hell there are people who post on reddit or here who even say they have to improve but it's hard to know when they are in actual CONTENT DOING A FIGHT, who would love a parser. What about those? You want them to stay on that level? Because I'm pretty sure and aware a huge part of the community would love to improve how they play. Isn't that why most play the game for? Be good at it?
And no money for content? Barely been any battle content, so I wouldn't worry about parser taking over the game, if I were you.

Sorry for the long reply.

Edit. And I just noticed we are on the same sever. Go to limsa and see who sits there 24-7 doing RP or just use the game as a chatbox. No one cares about those people because none of them do battle content. EVERY server has those players and no one care's about their numbers because they don't do any of it or just barely. Saying people would harrash them because of a parser, is something I dislike to see. I know many of them and I don't bother talk to them about battle content or even raids, because they have no interest for them, so please don't say people will turn into assholes to those people because of a parser and you know very well it's true.

edit: Haha, I just noticed you are in the Owl's FC in the same ward as mine

...........

Love this post, it's pretty good. I have to agree to it. Problem is as you mentioned, you can't say people are doing low before it's a harrasment. You have to sshh shh about it. Having a offical parser it would easier and better for players to discuss about the matter, rather than being quiet about it. I rarely want to call out out, unless I know the person wouldn't get offended by me saying ''hey your dps is low, may I help you'' In fact I've gotten reported for that. So I need to be quiet about it sadly.

[Reiryuu]

I should really look up Statistical Significance again and see if we have a significant sample size. You hear political polls where they polled 1,406 respondents and it apparently this is significant to them. Considering, in this particular context of my link, the Canadian population is 35.16m if about 33% of the population is considered active voters (11.60m); 1,406 respondents only represents 0.0121% of that population.
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The problem with this is the forums are already somewhat biased in one direction or another. I imagine most of the player base doesn't come to the forums because they are more or less content with the game as is. I come for the 4.0 speculation threads ( I know, I know it's early ). The forums just represent the vocal part of the community which is probably even then a small portion. So this thread is a small sample of a sample

[Ghishlain]

If you look at the points that were made here, most people claims they want a parser to judge their personal progression. For that, a character-by-character option would be a fine middle ground. If suddenly, they want to enforce the parser on you because they want to see your numbers, then it's a totally different topic.

I would like a group parser because for one (and now I'm going to start calling this my personal running joke) I want to see which player deserves all my Arrows and Balances on AST (lol).

The other is for transparency. There will be cases of harassment with the parser (their already are because some people just don't care about the legality of parsers) and there will be cases where that transparency will help alleviate conflict too.

ie., that one DPS who thinks "they are the best thing since sliced bread" trying to belligerently tell the other DPS how to actually DPS when they have less DPS than the healer. Don't really have a leg to stand on giving (bad) advice about DPS if you can't show you can DPS.

Like this result is significant to those who want a parser here. You can make statistics say a lot of things if you know how to twist them.
Last year, they made a poll to change schedule for nursery school in my city. 35% of people was in favor and 41% was against. The report said that since only 41% was against, then it was not the majority, and so they made the change...

Context is always important and as long as the posters have access to all the information, they can make judgements in their own way. As Reinha / Snoeswys has rightfully pointed out, there is some inaccuracies that cannot be accounted for due to the fact we can vote for multiple options. But a lot of numbers are there for everyone to see for their interpretation and misinterpreting the numbers like what was used in your example will be called out.

The problem with this is the forums are already somewhat biased in one direction or another. I imagine most of the player base doesn't come to the forums because they are more or less content with the game as is. I come for the 4.0 speculation threads ( I know, I know it's early ). The forums just represent the vocal part of the community which is probably even then a small portion. So this thread is a small sample of a sample

This is very true too. Not taking into account the size of the pool of posters he have available, the forum community will be different from the in-game community which will be different pending server to server and these communities will be different from the Reddit community, etc.

Ideally, the best poll to be made is one by S-E in the form of a login census and see what everyone would like. Though they might not recognize to do this if there isn't enough chatter about it on the forum.

Even though the forum is certainly a small and very specific part of the community, it's still a very visual and open tool for the development team. That's one of the reasons I continue to just debate this topic - the exposure it gives to the developers to see if they will move in one direction or the other.

[randysquirrel]

they use it and dont speak of it why ? because they could be reported AND banned. If this is not the case anymore and there is in fact an in game parser allowed there will be abuse of it since there is no repercussions right ? and since you dont really need any reasons to kick someone, the *i dont like him being not up to paar because of parsers numbers* a common reason to get rid of players even if they are new, Learning or just trying out....having a parser and allowed in game will just make this community more toxic then it already is

I speak only from experience. I have never been silently kicked from a group with no reason given. I have never seen anyone else silently kicked with no reason given.

Do you experience this often then?

[randysquirrel]

Do you care to provide a link to justify that statement...

Apologies, you are quite right. I meant in the context that half the playerbase are on pc and can use a parser, half of us are on ps3/4 and cannot. But even this I cannot justify, as I don't know the % split between the platforms.

I will make sure I carry out detailed research before I post again, and not assume people will not wilfully misinterpret my comments.

Back on topic, I'd like a parser simply as a QOL improvement in that I don't have to keep asking people what my numbers were. I wouldn't care if people can see my numbers, as some can already anyway. I doubt SE will comply though, as has been revealed in this thread, a number of people are staunchly opposed to having their numbers scrutinised.

It's not the end of the world if they don't, we will just continue with the tools currently available. It's just an inconvenience

[Reiryuu]

I speak only from experience. I have never been silently kicked from a group with no reason given. I have never seen anyone else silently kicked with no reason given.

Do you experience this often then?

I've seen it happen to others and heard about it happening in FC/LS chat on Masamune when I moved there from Balmung (live in Taiwan so the lag to the US servers is killer). I since moved to Valefor to avoid that crowd (to which I was exposed to a lot on Masamune from PF to DF) and I still hear it happening a few times on Valefor too from LS members who do that sort of content. Though the Japanese players apparently have a 4chan (or 2chan... I didn't pay much attention since I don't do that stuff anymore) thread about bad players and people to blacklist from raiding.

Though the majority of players put there are described as 地雷 (basically land mines-- they fail mechanics often, etc. I'm not sure if there's anything about bad dps)

[LaylaTsarra]

Apologies, you are quite right. I meant in the context that half the playerbase are on pc and can use a parser, half of us are on ps3/4 and cannot. But even this I cannot justify, as I don't know the % split between the platforms.

I will make sure I carry out detailed research before I post again, and not assume people will not wilfully misinterpret my comments.

Back on topic, I'd like a parser simply as a QOL improvement in that I don't have to keep asking people what my numbers were. I wouldn't care if people can see my numbers, as some can already anyway. I doubt SE will comply though, as has been revealed in this thread, a number of people are staunchly opposed to having their numbers scrutinised.

It's not the end of the world if they don't, we will just continue with the tools currently available. It's just an inconvenience

I appreciate that.

Yet I would also say you can't assume half the player base on PC uses parsers either Randy. Could be only 5 percent? What makes you think that is so? Do you have objective data to prove that statement? You could say I would venture to guess that it's true, but then again, you really don't know and neither does anyone else here know the numbers. Perhaps SE has a way of knowing, I really don't know.

I've made my feelings known on parsers. I would not be personally opposed to a personal parser if one were to be implemented but am totally against to having one in game for group evaluation for normal content. Perhaps there are exceptions as some have suggested where parsers could be implemented for raid content only as a choice but to have them available in DF forget it. I would venture to guess that some parser users have their parsers open in duties like Satasha Baby. Seriously, when numbers become the game as opposed to simply enjoying the content with others there is a problem.

[Neophyte]

Elitist, casual, yadda, yadda...

The options which widens the gap between hardcore/casual the most are 'minimum ilvl' and 'unsersized/unsynched'.

First one you don't want to join if you don't want to learn content and get better and better while trying to beat it.
Second one you don't want to join if you don't want to do just easy steamroll content.

So, do people get excluded here because they do not want that special option which is set in your pf?
Is this ok?*

*like: is it ok that 'undersized' is the norm and people wanting to do it the normal way have to search forever for a group?

If that's ok, then a parser would be okay, too, like mentioned in post #341.

Give people the option to choose. If it becomes the norm then live with it, like I have to live with the fact that I'll never find a ShivaEx synched group again. I have to make my own groups (stating "SYNCHED!!!!") and you'd have to make your own groups (stating "NO PARSE!!!), too.


Either it becomes the norm -> majority of ppl who do this content decided that parsers are ok.
Or it doesn't become the norm -> majority of ppl who do this content decided that parsers are not ok.

But since hardcore eitists are a minority this can't become the norm anyway, right?