Would you like an in-game parser?

[Cnidarian]

My argument FOR parser is simply because there are great numbers who refused to get better or feel harrased even if they have bunch of people who are more than willing to teach them how to play. They need to see with their own eyes why, when they do they will maybe understand more? Btw I'm talking about content like primals and raids. Problem is many wants to do those type of content but won't do their job, in this case as DPS. However, if you do 1.1k as BLM and the other is at 1.6k, that's a huge difference right there. Now the parser wont make you great as you stated, you have to see why. So you try different rotations during that phase, and if you improve you keep going if not you have to fix it again. That's what parser is doing.

I was planning on bringing up an example that this isn't always true but someone ended up posting the scenario for me. Chances are that many of the people (not all) you are describing that need to see their dps with their own eyes will only strive for "good enough" numbers. If they aren't currently trying to be the best they can, then they most likely won't even if they see what their numbers are. While I'm not saying people need to be "zomg! mad deeps" and topping charts, everyone should always strive to maximize their potential for their current situation. An example of someone who hit good enough and stopped caring is below:

But my point remains: my damage is high enough (since I could see it), I don't die (so I'm not an hindrance), and for what I know (as in, dungeons and alex normal), I'm doing ok overall, which is more than I could ask.
And all thanks to the parser because I managed to see my numbers and say "yeah, I'm doing well!". Infact if it wasn't for it, I wouldn't even bother with dpsing.
But there's always room for improvement....when I'll care, that is.

So while this person will eventually care, the fact remains that currently, good enough is good enough. As such, I still believe that the presence of a parser will not cause someone to improve, it will only force them to achieve good enough values. Only the actual desire to improve will cause someone to improve. I will cede the point that for those who truly want to improve, a parser will help them, but I don't think it's worth the amount of toxicity that will arise due to having an in game parser that shows everyone's numbers.

Also about the BLM facts: I only said that I know how to play it, because I can dish out enough damage, I don't die as often, and overall I contribute to the run enough to say "Well, I did ok, so I guess I know how to play it now".
Never I said that I'm the best at it: infact yes, my spell speed is low because I have certain pieces that don't have spell speed. I don't care about playing BiS but I care enough to play well enough to not be an hindrance: all I care is to dish out enough damage without dying and whether my item level is low or high, I couldn't give any care. Could I get better in terms of gear? Certainly, but most of my Lore gear is on my tanks and considering how small is the weekly cap I can't gear two jobs properly, so I stick with what I get. If I was a raider I can assure you that my stats would be different but I really don't care enough to get BiS gear.

Many of the lore items aren't that good at i220 so you don't really need to spend lore to obtain optimal stats for your current ilvl. Even unmelded i220 crafted gear is better than the i220 lore and Midan gear (example is the i220 chest, with 0 melds, it is BiS until the i240 Midan chest from M4S. In fact, there are some i210 items that are better than the i220 gear without a melded materia or their equivalent after melding. I never said you claimed to be the best, the only thing I pointed out was that you claimed to know the job and part of knowing the job is understanding what stats to focus on for that job. Just tossing on whatever gear you have available because it has a higher ilvl than your previous item isn't understanding the job and is in fact just focusing on ilvl.

[Voltyblast]

I never said you claimed to be the best, the only thing I pointed out was that you claimed to know the job and part of knowing the job is understanding what stats to focus on for that job. Just tossing on whatever gear you have available because it has a higher ilvl than your previous item isn't understanding the job and is in fact just focusing on ilvl.

I do know what stats I need, which is Spell Speed (and crit and accuracy when needed: I did coil long ago so I learned a few things back then), but the thing is that I don't really care, because "I don't have to". See, before I could see my dps I was pretty lost at my performance: I liked monk but I never knew if my dps was high, same for MCH and then BLM. Now that I do, and that my dps is very high (much higher than I anticipated, especially with the "non-BiS" gear that I had), I can definitely improve even more but "for what purpose?". Dungeons don't require high gear to be completed and Alex Normal is pretty easy already. However they serve me for another purpose: learning how to manage my times, my cds and my movements, and so far I managed to dish out high damage through mechanics, which is something that SSS cannot simulate.

What I'm saying is, Parser helped me to achieve what I wanted: having fun with my dps class. Yes this is a game, it's all about having fun, and thanks to the parser I managed to see that "I don't suck at being a BLM" so now I stick with it, and most likely will drop tanking in the next patches. I don't need to get higher because I have no need to, hence I don't "care" to get higher for that little content I do. I get whatever gear I can because "why not? It's not that I'm doing any relevant content to bother with min-maxing stats!". If I was a raider though, this would be much different.

But if I see my performance dropping, that's when I'll start caring again.

[Seraphix2407]

,...

There are times you can do enough and never die and still kill it without knowing your dps. The real question is, what if you did so low compare to the others and they made up for your loss. Do you think that's acceptable. Read my post that i wrote few mins up there. You go in a group with your same type of dps but wont kill it. Do know what the issue is? The damage. You go in a new group where everyone does 600-700 more than you but you kill it, acceptable? Don't go around and think everyone will accept the fact you can just get a freepass by kill because you didn't pull enough. I'm okay people screwing up and kill it with way lower than they should be if its 1 clear run, but if it's a farm I kindly ask them to leave, because I will NOT tollerate bad attitude towards the group, letting everyone play at their best while the last guy slack. Toxic and selfish and what many of you guys talks about parser people, just bad seed for the community.

You know those guy that will be left out? They will be with or without parsers, simply because they wont get gud. If that's what you guys worry about I mean.

[ChakoTako]

Use this website to determine what your dps is and how much you are improving for SSS.

Thank you! I didn't know that existed Last I tried the Seph ex dummy as an ilvl 217 w/ upgraded eso weapon, I was just shy of being able to clear it. I'm ilvl 220 now (still no lore weapon ) and was able to clear it with maybe 5 secs left. I know I'm not a great player, but I do try to improve. I would still like a personal parser though to see how it all works out in an actual fight with mechanics though.

[Cnidarian]

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No worries.

Now while I agree that in Savage and current EX primal setting, the situation you describe sucks and it's also something that is a large problem with clear and farm parties in the PF. There are a lot of players who join these hoping to get a carry without even learning the fight. The only thing having an official parser would do in that scenario is weed those players out. That won't help people get better at all and while not everyone will abuse it, you know there will be quite a sizable amount of people who will do one run, kick those with low dps and replace them (even if their dps is above average for the fight in question).

As an example, I was in a learning party for SephEX and someone was complaining that the WHM was only doing 350ish dps and they wanted to kick them to replace them with one that could do better dps. Others were speaking in favor of this and it wasn't until another person in the group who was also using a parser broke their silence and informed the group that the cohealer wasn't even healing and was focusing 100% on dps while the WHM was both dpsing and solo healing in a learning party (i.e. a lot of unneeded damage going out that could have been avoided). If it wasn't for that one person who was also using a parser speaking up, chances are that WHM would have been booted for no reason. This is something that ACT allows you to see and not something that a basic in game parser will show you. (Unless that parser also showed hps in addition to dps).

Edit - This example was in the first few weeks of SephEX.

[Seraphix2407]

No worries.

Yeah that's pretty silly. But we all know seph isn't excactly healer tight, there is many times you can sit in cleric for a while and do it, not that I will expect it, dont even need the extra dps unless its super tight somehow. Well, for me, it's NOT acceptable to kick someone whos doing 100 ish less than they should that means they are pretty good more than an average player. If they are doing 500-600 less, then I would ask them to leave, because you can't leech around me and get free pass by kills. The fact what you mention is just pure stupid, doing 350 ish as a whm is even good, but you know whats even worse?Those who think they are godsent but are even worse than an average players, those players usually ruins it for many as well. I'm pretty sure you know what I talk about. I talk for my own personal experience, many times I've farmed and we just go on with a guy being 50-100 behind, but if someone is way behind then that person has to leave, simple. I know there will be people kicking out those who are doing great and isn't the top but how many? I rarely see it happens, atleast around on my server. Keep in mind I've also been on Ragnarok and Odin server and you know those servers has one of the top players on Eu servers. But yes, I'm sorry if I ask again sir, but could you kindly explain to me how people could know how they improve in the actual fight/content? I talk about using SSS method, because you and I we both know and I sure hope so :P haha. That SSS doesn't give you any spesific data you actually do in battle content.
Many will be left out even without official parsers, because it already happens. Many are left out for reason and you and I both know very well why.

Literally just read all the quotes. But if you want spoilers - yes, multiple times.

My main point being the toxicity is here. It's here on the forums, it's in the game. And there aren't many people using parsers. So all these doomsday scenarios and fearmongering about "teh jerks" is pointless. The apocalypse arrived a long time ago. But the game is still growing. So just let people parse. It doesn't matter. It won't change anything.

I'm not gonna defend some peoples shitty attitude on these forums, so I will only speak for myself. I'm one of the healers who dps alot in expert dungeons, my tank pulls till the wall is stopping us and that's it. I'm not gonna expect people to do the same when some one else is healing, after all my motto is; best tank mitigatation is a dead mob/boss. You want to talk about toxic people? I have a bunch of many different scenarios like the BLM that refuses to use fire 4 in dungeons and go with bliz 3>fire 3 and it's funny to waste peoples time. Or the Tank who doesn't even overpower adds and let me die as a healer because regen is on, because they say that's how they play. Or that one healer who overheals and has no mp for next pull and blame it on the tank. The list is long. I could go on all day about this matter, but I rather not.

Edit: I wanted to add, why look at the negative sides of a parser when it's the last thing that puts a negative thing into the community? If you want to look at the negative side of everything, dont do trials, roulettes, talk in chat, or do content or even interact with people, let me tell you a secret... they might be bad people?! Shocking right? :P

[Cnidarian]

snip

Call me old school, but you can always manually parse the data yourself using the combat log. That actually use to be my favorite thing to do in older MMO's. Sit down with the other guild/raid leaders and manually pore over the combat logs to figure out new strategies and ways to deal with difference mechanics. Current technology and how fast information is shared now, this method isn't really viable anymore.


One thing I would like to point out in general, a lot of people are assuming that if they add in a parser, that it will be something like ACT or one of the many addons for WoW and other games. I highly doubt this is the case and at best all you can hope for is something that shows your dps or total damage during the fight.

One compromise I can see for those against a parser and those for it, is to have a screen pop up after you leave the duty displaying all the information. This will prevent toxicity during the run for your DF runs, and will still provide the information you would need to see how you compare. The only downside to this that I can think of is that you will get players who choose to ignore mechanics to push out more damage causing others to pick up the slack. (Example, M2/4 normal where someone willingly takes a height error because they don't want to move, or ignores Enumeration causing unneeded damage).

[KarstenS]

Call me old school, but you can always manually parse the data yourself using the combat log.

1.) The combat log is incomplete.

2.) It would take ages to manually get out all informations out of it and "emulate" the missing data.

[Krissey]

You want to talk about toxic people? I have a bunch of many different scenarios like the BLM that refuses to use fire 4 in dungeons and go with bliz 3>fire 3 and it's funny to waste peoples time. Or the Tank who doesn't even overpower adds and let me die as a healer because regen is on, because they say that's how they play. Or that one healer who overheals and has no mp for next pull and blame it on the tank.

You just made my point for me. Look at all these examples of awful toxic players and it has nothing to do with parsers. So...how is parsing going to do anything worse? BLM will still only cast Blizzard, people still won't heal right, etc..etc... Like I said. The Apocalypse happened a long time ago.

So parsing shouldn't make anything worse.

[Reynhart]

So parsing shouldn't make anything worse.

Basic maths, maybe ? Toxic player < Toxic player+Toxic parser.