Would you like an in-game parser?

[Xlantaa]

Reynhart has a point. If you add an in game parser, some people will consider gargabe any DPS wich perfon 10% less than the "optimal" You know is true, you cannot say no. WoW has trhis problem. People is more focus on be top DPS than play for fun, because they know imediately will be blamed if their DPS drops a bit.

Some people in this game seems want turn this game into that, sacrifice fun to do the "optimal" shit. Adding the parser for all in all content, will cause people start demand DPS to everyone, even that guy who plays 1 hour per day to run few dungeons and don't care about high level stuffand only want a little fun for a while.

So, the best solution is add parser personal only.

Or

Add a group parser for preformed parties only and only on high level content (Extreme Primals, Savage, Coil, etc) like Neophyte suggest few post ago, because all people wil lagree ein do it (and if not, the ycan jsut leave party). You don't need a parser for casual content to annoy players that only want play for fun.

This is simple. A meter on random DF parties will cause problems only, and won't help in anything.

[Reynhart]

If you add an in game parser, some people will consider gargabe any DPS wich perfon 10% less than the "optimal"

Why do you use "will" ? It's already there, thanks to personal parsers.
And it doesn't only applies to DPS. PLD was rejected because its DPS was too low, even with a perfect rotation...which is very very basic for PLD anyway...

What could save this game is to remove any damage display, so parsing could be impossible. The potency on skills would be enough to theoryze all you want, and Stone, Sky and Sea would give you a broad estimate on your improvement without actual numbers.

In fact, I'm pretty sure this insane focus on damage parse came way before hard DPS checks...when it was easier to put the blame on low DPS instead of screwing mechanics for reaching an enrage.

[Seraphix2407]

I will just ignore some of the last replies people did, because they still ignore a large problem of the community so I will post a very big post and have my own summer of what this thread has brought to us all!

So I will go over the people who doesn' want a parser in game and these are the reasons:
People being elitist jerks
People will only care about numbers
People will be left out from content
People can't play how they want so the pressure of a parser will make them stress out more, it's like a test to them.
It's not all about dps
Some feel they that dps has all the ''work'' to do
Will split community

Now I will post the things people who WANTS parsers:
No limitation to improve yourself as a player
Get better as a player
Adjust and see where and what could been done different in terms of cooldowns etc in fight
Playing DPS as main class and want to optimize it
Keep in mind I might have forgotten something so please let me know

Now, this part will be my respons to people who are againt's parser

Yes there will be elitist jerks of jerks who will call out bad dps in a bad way, saying things like you are shit, go quit the game, you shouldn't even play dps etc etc. The list is long and I know and I've seen it, however jerks will remain jerks, while people, like A LOT of people who also use parsers haven't called them out, so saying people will get worse of they get obtain a parser, will make it a lot worse. There will probably and most likely be more people who will jump on the bandewagon for calling out bad players in a shitty way, but keep in mind if people weren't so frustrated with themselves and actually improved themselves they would mostlikely not be called out even if it was a nice way or a shit way.

Numbers aren't excactly numbers. Many times peoples arguement againt's parsers is people will only be seen as numbers. There is a huge different ''forgetting'' or ''missclick'' skills and drop down 500 dps than doing 50-100 less than you could have. Keep in mind some DPS is RNG involved so having the excact same numbers wont happen all the time. If a person is 500 even more behind what they should, this isn't all about numbers, this is also about the player; Doesn't know a propper rotation, not willing to take advice, plays on their own way and simply gives a shit about people around them and only think about themselves. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM! FOR MANY PLAYERS!!

People being left out from content. There are various of excuses why this happens, one of them being players not playing optimized, keep in mind when I say optimized it means 85% or more into the job you play. You don't HAVE to play at 100%. This is what a lot of anti parser people sees wrong. Many people who parsers gives a rat's ass about dps in dungeons or even in 24 man. Even if there are people who do, there are NOT many of them. What most people want to let anti parsers know, the actuall talk about propper content like savage or extreme primals when you excactly can't slack around, so please stop say people would put you down in every single content.
If you aren't doing your role, you simply should 1: stay away or 2: get gud!
Many here arguments with dungeons or 24man raids, but never mention savage or extreme primals when they argue againt's people who want's parsers. There is a big difference in dungeons and primal/savage runs. Keep in mind it's also SE's fault a bit too, giving players no reason's to get better unless they really wanna do savage or extreme primals. The gap is simply too big too!

Now if you are left out there are many reasons, you simply don't pull enough weight for the actuall content and I talk about extreme primals or savage. Screw dungeons or 24 man raids, those doesn't matter at all. But honestly if you gonna cast blizzard or fire 3 every 10 seconds, you are doing it on purpose and wasting peoples time, simply because you are lazy, that's also what many people dislikes.
If you get nagged down, positive or negative way, take the criticism and get better. If you simply refuse because 1 guy was an asshole, that's your fault for not improving and also a bad excuse for doing so.
It's not all about DPS, no it's not, mechanics are involved too as well adjusting yourself as a dps to dance with the mechanics while dealing damage. Now, your JOB is to deal damage
Much as tank has to tank, or healers have to heal. Before anyone gonna bring up some silly arguements people say all the time healers aren't good if they don't dps, there are MANY and I talk about MANY who can't even pass faust because the healers can't heal through aoe or when the tank get's hit hard. So if you can, you know you are somewhat good enough to do it, if you can't you have to get better.
Tanks has to mitigate the busters and also controll the location of the boss/adds, so please don't tell me DPS shouldn't do anything. After all mechanics are for all classes. Healers to heal mechanics, tanks mitigate them and DPS has to do them and adjust and keep their dps high. Is this equal? I think so. Keep in mind when you play as a team you want everyone to optimize and not half ass it even if there are fights some classes can slack. If you are in my team I expect you to play 85% good and not slack, but being 100% is even better!. If you slack that one is your fault and if you won't get better that's also your own fault.

Now many feel the pressure of being a dps in certain fight's and you have the reason to do so, because it's your job to bring the boss down and if you can't well, you know what can be fixed.

Honestly I will probably get suspended or banned for saying this and I don't care if I do, because honestly has to be said:
But if you are complaining that some one told you that your dps is low, you have to fix it and not ignore it. Your job as a DPS is to dps, so if you think you can slack off, then you shouldn't expect healers to heal all the time when it's needed or tanks ignoring busters and won't use any cooldowns for it. As I mentioned countless of times, if you are being told in a dungeon or 24 man raid I'm sorry if people are like that and I find it annoying too. But if you slowing the team down on purpose because it's fun to cast freeze every 20 seconds or cast blizard through the dungeon or simply not doing positionals that's not worth ranting about their dps, that's more like the player having an awful attiutude and doesn't respect the group.

No anti parser person have even mentioned how those people can improve when they aren't willing to learn or look up guides. Most want to just ignore it and socialy accept it so peopel don't get hurt.
That's one of reasons why many are left out from extreme primals and savage runs. People who talks about wanting a parser in games and I talk about 99% of the people in here, want's one because many who want's to do primals or savage simply doesn't do their job enough. The 1% cares about dungens and 24 man raids, so I don't really see why people would mention dungeons 24-7s.

tl;dr:
If you as a DPS can't do your job propely, don't expect healers to heal all the time and tanks to avoid where to stand with boss or not even using CDs when tank buster comes
The people who want's parsers want it mainly for primals and savage raids. Since many can't pull the weight off being a dps, either ignore the problem being bad, doesn't take criticism, refuses to take advice, won't look up guides, play how they want (ice mage etc). Those reasons are why many can be extremely frustrated and then suddenly blow off and call people shit. If you think parsers will bring more problems to the game, that's because many still refuses to get better when one (maybe) officially will be in the game. Many of those exist and who knows maybe there will be more of those players if a parser eventually happens.

Please anti parser people, since you guys want to avoid having more jerks in game if parsers come out, and obviously your statement is to drop it completely so they wont be more of them.
How can we have people who refuses to take advice, get better or simply stop ''play the game how they want'' attitude? Or we gonna keep them out? Last time I checked this is an MMO and I'm sure many who are into parsing want to include more people as long they are more than willing to do so, but as many people know there is a huge group who won't.

[Asmodai]

What could save this game is to remove any damage display,.

That would kill the game in less than a month. What would really save this game is not listening to the vocal minority and give the vast majority of players what they want as far as add-ons which includes parsers.

Which they are going to do, as Yoshi has said several times.

[Ragnorak]

The word "Elitist" is very over used

[Reynhart]

That would kill the game in less than a month.

Why ? Because you say so ?

the vast majority of players what they want as far as add-ons which includes parsers.

Actually, I really doubt that is the majority.

Which they are going to do, as Yoshi has said several times.

You mean how he mentionend several times that he doesn't want to give people parsers because some of them will use this for harassment ?

No anti parser person have even mentioned how those people can improve when they aren't willing to learn or look up guides.

Since when "not having a parser" means not "learning" or refusing "to look at a guide".
I'd really like you to explain that since I've personnally never used a parser, yet I checked a lot a guides or videos on how to do better as a Dragoon, and I know that it helped me improve a lot...without a single parser
And I've even used Stone, Sky and Sea to check on my overall improvement...something I actually mentionned,too

[Seraphix2407]

You mean how he mentionend several times that he doesn't want to give people parsers because some of them will use this for harassment ?


Since when "not having a parser" means not "learning" or refuse "to look at a guide".
I'd really like you to explain that since I've personnally never used a parser, yet I checked a lot a guides or videos on how to do better as a Dragoon, and I know that it helped me improve a lot...without a single parser
And I've even used Stone, Sky and Sea to check on my overall improvement...something I actually mentionned,too

Having almost no DPS requirment will deff kill the game, this is nothing he only states just to be funny, it's true. Why are dps there? To deal damage and do rotations and for your reply to me. Many refuses to read guides and still if they do they aren't good enough to do it, then what? Are you sure you do enough as you should tho? I did midas 4 savage as ilvl 220 drg with 220 spear but with some food and pot and small amount of good rng, I managed to do it. That doesn't tell me how I would perform in the actual fight with mechanics, where many and including myself could fail on.
I'm not saying YOU, haven't checked a guide, many doesn't and that's still a problem and how do we fix that?

[Asmodai]

Why ? Because you say so ?

Because not seeing yourself progress means you may as well be playing a puzzle game or mario paint. There is a reason why no rpg's or at least any rpgs that are even slightly popular do this. Or why damage is listed for every weapon in the vast majority of games. People like seeing it.

Actually, I really doubt that is the majority.

The poll on the front of this page says otherwise. 2/3 of the people who cared to vote voted against your thought process. I'm sure youre going to say "250 votes out of 600k players proves nothing" and I would respond that the random selection of individuals would equate to a valid opinion poll.

You mean how he mentionend several times that he doesn't want to give people parsers because some of them will use this for harassment ?

You can pretend he said that all you want, but it isnt true. What he said is he didnt want to make an official parser but he did say add-ons are going to be put in. As for add-ons with DPS meters he said the below.

YoshiP: We’re not going to say we’re forbidding players to use that kind of tool if they make it, but I think that’s really up to the community and players for that decision.

[Reynhart]

Having almost no DPS requirment will deff kill the game, this is nothing he only states just to be funny, it's true.

Strange because I actually think having such hard DPS requirement like Alex Savage defnitiely killed more of the playerbase than the whole Coil, where DPS requirement where far far less severe.

Many refuses to read guides and still if they do they aren't good enough to do it, then what?

I didn't defend people who refused to improve. It's just that "a parser is mandatory to improve" mentality is just stupid.

Are you sure you do enough as you should tho?

Interesting question. No, I'm not sure of it, but it's actually another problem. Let's say that a DPS check requires 4000 overall DPS. Let's say one DPS does 1000 and manage to do all mechanics. Let's say another DPS does 1500 but screw severals times on that phase. According to you, which one will be kicked ? The one who do enough and not screwing mechanics or the one wo do more than enough but fail the rest.

I'm not saying YOU, haven't checked a guide, many doesn't and that's still a problem and how do we fix that?

You still considered refusing to learn as the same thing as not wanting a parser, which has nothing do with it

Because not seeing yourself progress means you may as well be playing a puzzle game or mario paint.

Except there is a way to see the progress you make...

Or why damage is listed for every weapon in the vast majority of games. People like seeing it.

Several games also don't display actual damage numbers on screen, even though your weapon and skills gives a base number.

I'm sure youre going to say "250 votes out of 600k players proves nothing" and I would respond that the random selection of individuals would equate to a valid opinion poll.

Which it does not. Random selection means nothing in statistics. 250 votes out of 600k players really means nothing.

YoshiP: We’re not going to say we’re forbidding players to use that kind of tool if they make it, but I think that’s really up to the community and players for that decision.

Right, and again, it's way too early to state that the playerbase wants a parser.

If you really want to gove players what they want, you'd allow any player to hide their damage on a personal basis. This way, each player would be able to decide if they want to be parsed or not.

[Jynx]

The poll on the front of this page says otherwise.

That's a hilariously slippery slope if you want to try and defend forum likes to a objective view of the player base. Even as a guy who has threads with several hundred likes I'm well aware that the forums opinion doesn't reflect the community as a whole.

The forums group is a pretty committed group of players and the type who know what a parser even is and how it can be used for good purposes. The majority of players in the game wouldn't even know what a parser is even if it slapped them in the face. It's these players and the small subsect of core players who would abuse this and use it to harass players rather than use it for personal gains. You overestimate the ability of players to use this tool for good instead of ill.