Would you like an in-game parser?

[Kezy_Kaatapoh]

The question is "Do players in this game, FFXIV, need the parsers to clear content? Are parsers necessary?"

And the answer to that question - definitively and verifiably - is no, they aren't. Players have been clearing the content just fine without them for almost 3 years now - and doing so pretty darn quickly in many cases.

Except that is definitively and verifiably not true. You're missing the part where parsers have existed for those 3 years and every (EVERY!!!) top group has used them. I'd argue every group that's cleared (minus maybe a couple outliers) before nerfs have had at least one person parsing. This is a large crux of your argument that's flat false.


The thing is, people want an official in game parser mostly to bring PS3/PS4 players the ability to do what the PC players have had the capability to do for ages, and that is gauge their performance as a DPS. People on PC who want to parse already are, so in reality, only PS3/PS4 players now receiving a parser would see any real change from this.

Now for the rest of your argument, it seems to me mostly more fear of abuse. As said more than once, abusive players are abusive players. They will find a way to abuse you with or without a parser. Why is parser abuse worse than non parser abuse? So what if it's another tool to use? They already have plenty of tools! Not to mention a lot of those abusers are the ones actually doing poorly. So having a parser will in many situations remove a tool for them to abuse you with.

The thing is, abuse will always be abuse. You can and should report it. GMs have been very good from what I've seen at dealing with actual abuse. Note: actual. Someone telling you your DPS is low is not abuse. It's simply stating a fact that probably hindered or blocked the group from completing the content.

I agree with what someone else said before. There will probably be an influx of abuse at the start, but that'll subside as GMs cut those people abusing it out. Although, to be honest, even an influx of abuse I don't think will be much. This is anecdotal, sure, but I've seen abusive players only 5 times in the time I've been playing, which was only a month or two after PS3 release. Maybe I'm lucky, but I feel if someone is constantly seeing heavy abuse, it's a sign that there's something you could work on. This doesn't absolve the abusers. They are still to blame, as acting that way isn't acceptable, but you can't control them. You can control you though.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

. . .

Interesting. I've seen a lot from you this thread. You expressed a loss of desire to offer help to under performers [cause you believe most won't listen], wish for a tool to be able to pin point under performers, and you believe SSS is inefficient because it lacks the boss mechanics.

Let me ask you this then. Based on what I've seen you talk about you believe that when someone is in a group they need to preform at a certain level of skill or get out. You want them to get better, but by your own admission things like SSS and dummies won't help them. Only being in the encounter to practice with a parser will let them become better, but you don't want them in there holding you back. So how again do you expect people to improve?

[Ghishlain]

-Snip-

The easy solution to this is S-E states what the acceptable lower limit of DPS is when they release a parser and suddenly you can't weaponize the numbers and "Well you aren't meeting MY standards of play" because the player base has no say in that anymore.

If the harasser is playing that card at that point, report them for harassment and move on. We don't need those kinds of ignorant people polluting the game anyway.

[Singularity]

The question is "Do players in this game, FFXIV, need the parsers to clear content? Are parsers necessary?"

And the answer to that question - definitively and verifiably - is no, they aren't. Players have been clearing the content just fine without them for almost 3 years now - and doing so pretty darn quickly in many cases

Is it so clear as that? Players have been clearing content without an official parser for three years. That much is demonstrably true, but it doesn't mean they haven't been using unofficial parsers. Certainly at least some groups have - the evidence may be found in many publicly available kill videos.

SE have a vested interest in improving the skill level of the player base. The better people are, the more of the content they will do and the longer the game will hold their interest (and therefore their subscription). If one defines that which "the game needs" as that which will keep its population as high as possible, then the game needs a player base that is capable of playing all of the game.

I agree that giving the player base access to officially sanctioned group parsing would put a tool in the hands of those who would abuse it (and sadly I think that that group outnumbers those that would use it to help others). In fact I am almost completely happy with the current state regarding parsers (i.e. yes, but don't talk about it except among friends), with the sole exception that it disadvantages PS4 players. So I support implementation of an official DPS readout for personal use.

For the purposes of seeing how good one's numbers are, perhaps SE could also implement an anonymised built-in leaderboard (basically an anonymous version of fflogs) that would show you where you stand relative to other players on the same job doing the same content and at similar iLvl. That would be a more useful benchmark than the other players in the party anyway.

[Seraphix2407]

Interesting. I've seen a lot from you this thread. You expressed a loss of desire to offer help to under performers [cause you believe most won't listen], wish for a tool to be able to pin point under performers, and you believe SSS is inefficient because it lacks the boss mechanics.

Let me ask you this then. Based on what I've seen you talk about you believe that when someone is in a group they need to preform at a certain level of skill or get out. You want them to get better, but by your own admission things like SSS and dummies won't help them. Only being in the encounter to practice with a parser will let them become better, but you don't want them in there holding you back. So how again do you expect people to improve?

Thanks for your respons and yes I have indeed posted alot in here. So to reply to your question:
Yes to beat a certain content, let it be savage or primal.

I expect a certain level when you want to be the content, you don't need to be super top to beat it, but a certain level is far than enough to beat it.
As I've stated before in this thread, there are groups I've been for hours like in seph extreme or midas 1 savage recently. I have beat those content ages ago and I don't mind, as you said they need to improve and get better, so that's why I'm staying. However, those guys did listen, but as you mentioned and said, yes I have met a lot of players who simply refuses to listen or improve, because they keep die or not improve at all when it comes to DPS. Do I call them out? Nope, but I do tell them they have to improve or we have to replace. To be honest, I've met few of those and they know they are a screw up for the group and are willing to leave on their own, but I can sadly not say that about the players I usually meet.

There is a difference improving each run than improving after 2 hours while everyone is ahead and not willing to take advice in terms of mechanics or dps.
A way person can improve is to also admit their own mistakes and not ignore them. Another way to improve is also admit they are not doing as expected (dps wise)
How can you improve those? Take advice, practice, ASK for advice. I still stand on my opinion on SSS. Yes it gives you somewhat a pinpoint how your DPS is if you do beat it, but that doesn't mean you can pull it off in the actual fight. Many time's I've seen people who do SSS slower than another person but yet that person out dps the one who beat the dummy faster, this is a good example how it really is.

As mentioned many times. Many are indeed a-holes with their parsers, and I agree. But then you have those who refuses to get better or take advice, failing soo many times or not increasing dps each time the run the content. This is my whole point. Many in here are againts parsers because of a-holes. I'm for parser because (honestly) they need to see why they aren't involved in groups and that tool alone will help you on a long run. It can give you info where you can improve and where you shouldn't do weird stuff like popping b4b right before the boss does LB for example.

Problem is, to make it short. Many refuses to get better. Many takes offense when they are even told in a nice way to improve. It's true, you have to watch out for peoples feelings and then just socialy accept they are bad, so me or you or anyone else wont hurt their feelings. To improve you also have to deal how bad you been doing, simple as that. If you can't deal with it, then you need to understand there are people who aren't willing to help you, because you can't take criticism. I know being an asshole about isn't nice so I tell most people be nice about it and let them know.

However there is a HUGE difference between ''Your dps sucks ass, gtfo'' and ''You have a bit low dps, mind if I can show you how to improve''?
Then again you have to watch out for peoples feelings, so even being nice might hurt their feelings sadly. Parser would let them see how bad or good they are without being told. Even if you aren't one of those who get offended or tells you to fuck off, it's still a nice addition for those who want to even get better .

And to add, many in here or people in general who are againt's parser arent interested in knowing what they do, which is a huge problem as well, knowing they ignore the problem more than trying to fix it. That's why I said those post makes me wanna not help anymore, because that's how they want it to be. I'm not saying all, but a few atleast from reading their post.

[Zojha]

The thing is, people want an official in game parser mostly to bring PS3/PS4 players the ability to do what the PC players have had the capability to do for ages, [...]

Namely to violate the terms of service via third party programs that only a PC can run?

I'd really appreciate if people could finally stop using the PS3/PS4 argument. PCs are simply more capable than consoles due to the ability to freely run third party programs. As such, PC players will always be able to do more than console players, they will always have more abilities. Using this advantage however is prohibited by the terms of service and the only reason people aren't being banned for parsing right now is because SE is nice and lenient. If you actually want equality, ask SE to stop being nice, because that's what the inequality stems from. And if you don't, please just stop using the argument.

[Kallera]

does the vested interest of "improving the player base" involve punishing those not as interested in the attitudes from the hardest, most frustrating tier of content? Why would SE win by players treating other players like numbers?

[Seraphix2407]

does the vested interest of "improving the player base" involve punishing those not as interested in the attitudes from the hardest, most frustrating tier of content? Why would SE win by players treating other players like numbers?

If you aren't interested in the hardest content you simply don't do them. People judge those who who do but not pulling enough weight.

[Kallera]

If you aren't interested in the hardest content you simply don't do them. People judge those who who do but not pulling enough weight.

Player standards vary a lot with this. So do game mechanics. either the gms have to review the intrcacies of each case(which would involve more than what the combat log provides) or it gets open to a very wide interpretation by the players that can affect a lot of unintended targets.

and don't say those attitudes would stay in savage and ex trial, it can and does roll downhill and has since the game started.

[Singularity]

Why would SE win by players treating other players like numbers?

I do not see how implementation of a personal-use parser would enable this. Those that do not want to use it can simply turn it off like any other UI element.