Would you like an in-game parser?

[Seraphix2407]

btw its just a game :P

Ahh yeah, hes vise. I love alot of his quotes. Yes it is a game, but seriously, don't waste my time if you want help and don't care to improve in both dps and mechanics. If you wanna wipe for 10 hours on same thing after 1 min into a pull, that's your choice. My choice is to have fun, having fun is being avaible to beat my previous records, improving in both dps and mechanics, same time beating content. For ME this is fun, there is no fun when some people aren't willing to listen and drags a whole party down . Yes it is a game and it's meant to be fun and this is my way of fun.

Are people afraid of being called out by annoying toxic jerks? This sounds like the only reason people wouldn't want to have their DPS made public.
But after being called out by one of those jerks, you could take the feedback positively regardless of the words that were said. Having yourself being brought into the spotlight for a moment to give you the realization that you are under-performing should be replied with "I need to find a way to get better!" not "I should ignore that jerk because he was being mean about it."

Yeah some people have no tact and cannot be polite regarding things. It happens. When you get down to the end result, you may not yet realize how much you have been under-performing. I have no idea about myself I don't parse. But I've been called out before and I've used it to improve. I won't dismiss advice helping me just because I was told I shouldn't be living or something to that effect

Yeah same here. When people saw how bad I did, I simply ignore what they said and became better. If you are in a spotlight and people tell you how bad you are, both nice or assholes, you should still think about improving. It's like what you said, many ignore the fact and keep telling themselves ''this guy is just mean''. I have my own raid group and when I screw up I get told and I like it, because it means I need to improve. Many people take this the bad way, even if told nicely.

[magdahmhara]

209 votes out of millons of people really doesn't show anything. If you want to know how many people want/don't want a parser you would need a much, much larger sampling. This really proves nothing to the devs, lol.

[Rawrz]

209 votes out of millons of people really doesn't show anything. If you want to know how many people want/don't want a parser you would need a much, much larger sampling. This really proves nothing to the devs, lol.

If the sample is strong enough, they could push an in game survey upon log in.

200+ people voting a single topic on the forum is allot of attention towards any subject.

[Canadane]

Are people afraid of being called out by annoying toxic jerks? This sounds like the only reason people wouldn't want to have their DPS made public.
But after being called out by one of those jerks, you could take the feedback positively regardless of the words that were said. Having yourself being brought into the spotlight for a moment to give you the realization that you are under-performing should be replied with "I need to find a way to get better!" not "I should ignore that jerk because he was being mean about it."

Yeah some people have no tact and cannot be polite regarding things. It happens. When you get down to the end result, you may not yet realize how much you have been under-performing. I have no idea about myself I don't parse. But I've been called out before and I've used it to improve. I won't dismiss advice helping me just because I was told I shouldn't be living or something to that effect.

If there's some other reason people don't want a public parse, I'm all ears.

[Preypacer]

Seems to me the playerbase has done just fine without a Parser all this time. After all, every new dungeon, quest, trial, etc introduced - whether normal, hard, or savage, has been cleared, has it not?

Seems to me people are doing just fine without parsers to tell them what they already know - that they're doing sufficient output, and dancing to the mechanics sufficiently to defeat the content. But that's not enough. There's gotta be NUMBERS!

The SSS is clearly demonstrating to them exactly what they already want to know: Are they geared and performing sufficiently to handle related content. If they clear the SSS, then the definitive answer to that is "Yes, you are capable of clearing that content. Your Damage output and/or rotation are sufficient. You would have failed otherwise". But that's not enough. There's gotta be NUMBERS!

And further still, it's not enough - for some - to only see their own numbers. They already know they're awesome. No no... they have to see others' numbers, too. They want ALL THE NUMBERS!! Why? So they can lord over those whose NUMBERS!! don't match their own, or meet their own personal "standard" of what others "are required to meet". So they can berate all those "n00bs" and "bads" and "filthy casuals" for daring to exist in their game.

And to those saying "no no.... that totes won't be abused in FFXIV. It's all for the good of the players!" - you're either very new to MMOs, or you're a liar. Straight up.

People being arrogant pricks, mocking, berating and kicking others over "poor dps numbers" has been happening for years now, across numerous MMOs. People have been obsessed with NUMBERS! for a long time, and it's been well discussed and debated. Among others, it's one of the main reasons why so many are against them. It turns your standard garden variety elitist prick into an elitist prick who feels justified in behaving that way, because they have "data" to fling around as ammunition... data which others in their group may not give a crap about (they're just trying to enjoy their time in-game), but have to hear about anyway, because it's all about 'NUMBERS!'.

The same debate happens in every MMO, and the same arguments for it come up, for and against. You could almost copy and paste any thread from any MMO, replace the name of the MMO with "FFXIV", and you'd have a near duplicate.

What it seems to boil down to, to me, is that some people are just seriously obsessed - as in literally obsessed - with numbers. And it's nothing new.

Clearly, Yoshi-P is aware of the crap attitudes parser data encourages in a MMO community, and he does not want to see nor enable it in XIV. He's a MMO vet, himself, and has certainly seen a fair share of such behavior in his day. Yes, they are going to allow people to create their own parsers once player addons become possible - but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find access to certain data to be very limited, or rules enforced to punish those who use such data to abuse/harass other players.

As I've said before... No one *needs* an official parser. Certain people - those obsessed with NUMBERS! - just really really want one.

[Rawrz]

Seems to me the playerbase has done just fine without a Parser all this time. After all, every new dungeon, quest, trial, etc introduced - whether normal, hard, or savage, has been cleared, has it not?

Seems to me people are doing just fine without parsers to tell them what they already know - that they're doing sufficient output, and dancing to the mechanics sufficiently to defeat the content. But that's not enough. There's gotta be NUMBERS!

Stopped reading after this. One requirement of a raid group is someone who parses, when you put that static together. Someone is parsing. Give me a world first or a world tenth that didn't use one. Hint: you won't find one.

[Preypacer]

Stopped reading after this. One requirement of a raid group is someone who parses, when you put that static together. Someone is parsing. Give me a world first or a world tenth that didn't use one. Hint: you won't find one.

So, your argument is... "parsers are necessary because people use them"?

You seem to have missed the point of my post (or that part of it at least). Whether or not they're used isn't the question. Obviously they are.

The question is "Do players in this game, FFXIV, need the parsers to clear content? Are parsers necessary?"

And the answer to that question - definitively and verifiably - is no, they aren't. Players have been clearing the content just fine without them for almost 3 years now - and doing so pretty darn quickly in many cases.

Some people are just obsessed with reducing everything down to numbers - "min/max" this, "optimal" that - and mistake something they want as something the game needs.

Another question is, would parsers give ammunition to those already prone to being asshats, to become even more so? Historically, in every other MMO they've been in, yes, it will. Those people already exist in this game. They even post in these forums - at least a few in this very thread.

A very real concern with many, is that those people would not keep such "standards of performance" to themselves. They would impose them on everyone else. And not just in end-game raid content. No no, in DF as well. How do I know? Because they've already been doing it - insisting that if you're in "their party", haven't studied videos on the content, and are unable to perform up to their standards, that you're wasting "their" time, and holding "them" back. Some have requested ways to lock out people they deem "unworthy" of being in "their groups" - yes, even in DF. Just spend an hour or three going back over the numerous threads and discussions archived on these forums for the last 2+ years. You'll see plenty of such attitudes on display.

What do you think those people would do if actual numbers became available to them? Do you think they'd suddenly become conciliatory and helpful? Do you think they'd wield that information respectfully and reasonably? Hell freaking no they wouldn't. They'd become even worse. Again, history - across myriad other MMOs - has proven this out, and the "seeds" are already planted in this game's community.

Give those people access to that data, and they would immediately weaponize it against other players, berating, insulting, humiliating, purely to groom their own sense of superiority, and boost their own ego. Yoshi-P is clearly aware of this kind of behavior in other MMOs, and realizes bringing that capability to FFXIV in an official manner would inevitably produce the same results. He doesn't want that crap infecting XIV's community any more than it already has. This is why he is against implementing parsers officially, and made the compromise of the SSS - which, yes, does provide sufficient feedback of whether a player's prepared to take on given content, in a purely binary, pass-or-fail kind of way.

And if you don't like the way I've depicted a portion of this game's community, hey... don't get angry at me. I don't make people behave the way they do. Ask them why they behave that way in the first place.

[Seraphix2407]

Give those people access to that data, and they would immediately weaponize it against other players, berating, insulting, humiliating, purely to groom their own sense of superiority, and boost their own ego. Yoshi-P is clearly aware of this kind of behavior in other MMOs, and realizes bringing that capability to FFXIV in an official manner would inevitably produce the same results. He doesn't want that crap infecting XIV's community any more than it already has. This is why he is against implementing parsers officially, and made the compromise of the SSS - which, yes, does provide sufficient feedback of whether a player's prepared to take on given content, in a purely binary, pass-or-fail kind of way

Then you have those who won't take advice, listen to people when mechanic comes, those who tells people to get a life just because they wanna help, say it's just a game, it's my game my sub.
Ever heard of respect?
You know what respect is right? It goes both ways. If YOU as DPS is nerfing down a whole group, simply because you can't forfill your job, that one is on YOU!
No really it's on you. Don't expect people to play bit better, just so you can get your clear, it doesn't work like that. This post make it sound like healers and tank can play their roles half ass and you will be fine with it, which I highly doubt you would. I won't lie but this post made me really annoyed, because you make it sound like we should ignore problems instead of fixing it. There will be assholes with or without official parser. Just a reminder, there are people who have parser you and I'm well aware some didn't even say they did and some might have.

Read this line again and I would like you to respond to my old post to you as well.
Respect goes both ways, don't think you are the one to get only respect because you simply won't do your job. This is my respons to ''why'' an official parser might not be released as you stated, people will become more a-holes. But nah, seriously I find more players who refuses to listen more toxic than a player who calls out people numbers.

No. Just no. This isn't just about numbers. You put a guy in a fight where BLM's for example or BRD/MCH has to move alot, they wouldn't need to move for jack shit on SSS. Put them in a fight like sephirot, thordan, midas savage etc, you will see it will ring another tone.
Example, a mnk can do insane dps on a stupid dummy, once they in a fight it will be different, with mechanics. Numbers only? What about your dps is low as 900 in a fight, then you suddenly want to use a parser or anyone else, they see it and they will probably think: Damn, this dps is low. How do I improve it? Well first, did he beat the dummy? Yes, did he do the mechanics on it? No. So this is where the parser is going to be the real deal, you look at it, find out what you doing wrong, fix it and voila you have increased the dps. There are fights you wanna hold your cds or even use them right away. It's all different from fight to fight. So numbers only? Nope..

Edit. Before anyone else pulls of this is just a game card. Yes, I know it's just a game. However I'm paying for it, so to show off respect to players, forfill your role as a person, give, show respect, and you will get it back. The only way to do so, is actually improve yourself as a person both how you play and how you are. This goes off to anyone, a-holes or simply those who refuse to get better. Too many times many wont take advice and that's a whole reason why I stopped helping strangers, unless I know they are more than wiling to.

[/I]And the answer to that question - definitively and verifiably - is no, they aren't. Players have been clearing the content just fine without them for almost 3 years now - and doing so pretty darn quickly in many cases.

Yes and no. There are endless of ways how that could been done. Echo, nerfs and simply 7 people pulling enough weight for 1 person to do less and be acceptable. Sorry that's what most of us trying to avoid, that 1 dps is slacking so it's just ''fine'' to ignore it.
Many times I've had people from different servers making alt on my server to respond to a video I uploaded 3 weeks ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5NupyOO0eU 7PLDS and 1 SCH beating seph extreme. Now why did they do that? Because their group had no deaths but got enrage on sephe xtreme with a normal party. What's your defence on that?

[Miles_Maelstrom]

. . .

Interesting. I've seen a lot from you this thread. You expressed a loss of desire to offer help to under performers [cause you believe most won't listen], wish for a tool to be able to pin point under performers, and you believe SSS is inefficient because it lacks the boss mechanics.

Let me ask you this then. Based on what I've seen you talk about you believe that when someone is in a group they need to preform at a certain level of skill or get out. You want them to get better, but by your own admission things like SSS and dummies won't help them. Only being in the encounter to practice with a parser will let them become better, but you don't want them in there holding you back. So how again do you expect people to improve?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

snip.

This is way better put than my apparently "rude" posts earlier. Thanks for this, it's exactly how I feel and you expressed far better than I did.