Would you like an in-game parser?

[akaneakki]

Wait...wait...You always think you've seen everything....t.

Same, I'm still surprised these days on the forum xD.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip

Not calling you elitist, I'm just explaining why others would call you elitists.

It's fine that you have a different opinion. My problem is that you aren't understanding that people may have difficulty with content that you may find easy. For example, Akeneakki just said:

I can't count how many times I've asked tanks to put susano on the edge of the black line in the middle so the melee can hit the boss from opposite side with thunder mark. Why is that so extremely hard, I mean.. why is it so extremely hard to do such an easy thing? So again, please explain why susano and lakashmi is hard.

For them they think its an easy thing. For others this is probably extremely difficult. However, their post comes off condescending and not at all attempting to think that "oh, maybe its a little difficult for them to set that up"

[AphraelAmarantha]

Well, I wonder, what can the devs do to help make it easier for people to actually know the fight (not just the mechanics but the sequence of events), especially for people like me who can't memorize all the stuff that happens in a scripted battle like this or doing things over and over doesn't help them? I write things down after watching vids but that doesn't help me if I don't have enough down time to look at my sheet. Actually, maybe this question should be saved for a different thread.

[akaneakki]

Well, I wonder, what can the devs do to help make it easier for people to actually know the fight (not just the mechanics but the sequence of events), especially for people like me who can't memorize all the stuff that happens in a scripted battle like this or doing things over and over doesn't help them? I write things down after watching vids but that doesn't help me if I don't have enough down time to look at my sheet. Actually, maybe this question should be saved for a different thread.

Well I will make it simple, not everyone learns fights as good as others or evem memorize them as easy as others. I know this is true, but that's not the case in most scenarios. Most people claim they know but they don't. Example is when you said people know the fight back of their hand but yet they cause wipes or near wipes or even close to enrage to fights because they can't deal with both doing damage and mechanics. The game is already so madly scripted, there is nothing the devs can do to make them easier besides less punishment, but they already did that in ex, both lakashmi and susano. If someone goes wrong way with thunder mark, it's easily doable to recover. Honestly I wouldn't even mind doing duties with you or ever raids whatever with you, to help you out, however we are on 2 completely different data centers. I believe many people can get better if they are willing too. I have honestly met so many players who was very bottom players and now avaible to clear or have cleared fight slike ultimate coil. It's just the part you are willing to listen and take tips from players, much as many in here wants to help people improve their dps. Nobody can improve their gameplay when the person who needs help find it as harrasement. To me when you said it's kinda elitist to make someone do something in a certain fight, didn't bother me, what bothers me is that's all they can come up with, because it shows we are right about them and they don't give a rats ass about trying to improve.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip

Yeah, sorry, I want trying to sound like that (emotions run high for me when I see threads like this, so I usually don't reply in them) but yes, I've kinda noticed it's a circular argument here. One side will say one thing all the time and the other side does the same but the opposite thus it goes round and round. Its why this thread is at 193 pages lol.

Again though, I think it comes back down to this: what can the devs do to force people who aren't willing to learn to actually learn? Should they do like Ult Coil and do a flat out lockout until they beat Savage (I have no problem with this tbh, I will never be good enough to get that far lol). Should the next expansion have a totally new difficulty curve for the msq, requiring players to know how to do things so they can be prepared for higher difficulty content? I don't think there is an easy answer to this and unfortunately, as I said previously, you can't stop the people who aren't willing to learn to buy the game and screw others over.

[Yeol]

... for people like me who can't memorize all the stuff that happens in a scripted battle like this or doing things over and over doesn't help them? I write things down after watching vids but that doesn't help me if I don't have enough down time to look at my sheet.

No problem at all
If you play with friends/static, there is usually someone giving callouts. So you don't have to memorize encounters. Eventually, It'll become like a song that plays in your head. You will remember bits of it at least.

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into a debate on EX primal difficulty byt I do have two short stories to share about Susie and Lakshmi.

During a Susano farm I was healing with Tridus (so both healers rather competent, albeit not Savage progression people) I wound up laying the cloud AoE right over the safe zone right before the Sword phase.

We recovered without any deaths.

During a Lakshmi I was healing on my own we had farmed some for about two hours and the PF was doing great. My cohealer asked if I would be okay solo healing the fight so she could go on RDM to speed things up. Long story short OT didn't stay ahead of me on enmity and I cleaved the raid with the second threat cone, killed every DPS. I only lived because the MT PLD covered me. He died to an auto attack seconds later. We didn't even wipe! Got closer to enrage than I've been in a long time but still.

If these huge mistakes (including a mostly dead group) can be overcome by self-proclaimed casual healers I don't think the argument can be reasonably made that the 4.0 ex primals are not faceroll.

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on? Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.

Do you focus target the boss so you can see the cast for Stormsplitter? Because that cast bar is really long, I can Cure II a tank up, DB him and precast another Cure II to hit with the damage pretty reliably during it.

No one is calling you "retarded" people are saying based on your current issues you need more experience if you expect to play on the same level as other people who have more experience.

[AxlStream]

I'd like a personal parser just so that 90% of the community gets humbled. Maybe they'd at least get the hint that they're awful at the game instead of saying "you don't pay my sub". Tired of feeling like I play 2 roles at once out of the sheer laziness of my DPS.

[AphraelAmarantha]

My personal opinion is you need to design content where people fail AND ensure that proper feedback is given in game on how to overcome hurdles. That would include things like parsers, job quests that actually fail if you can't heal/dps simultaneously, or teach you how to heal multiple targets over a long period of time (can't spam AOE heals).

Again, it doesn't need to be savage hard. You just need to design it to fail if you do not respect the rules of the lesson. Then ensure that you teach how to pass. Don't teach muscle memory though, teach concepts.

I think this is good but not enough. You can't just leave the pass fail thing to just that quest/lesson. That same stuff that needs to be continuously being used in the next lesson and the next lesson while each one give you new stuff to learn as well. This increases complexity and forces someone I think to realize oh, I need to keep doing this in addition to dealing with this and so on. The best metroidvanias I've noticed do this very well. FFXIV seem to lack this kind of build up for player abilities and mechanics.

Based on what I am reading here you are not using your oGCD in a good way. oGCDs are like tank cooldowns. They are best used at specific points of the fight. Take some time to figure out where they work best. Do not simply cast them on cooldown or because the party took damage.

So what do I do if a DPS takes massive damage and a mechanic shows up where they are almost guaranteed to die regardless if I have regen on them? Usually I just use Tetragammation or the other one (cant remember its name atm x_x). Do I not use that to keep them alive and save it for a tank buster? Wouldn't I then be wasting a quickcast when I raise them (I always save quickcast in boss fights for raise).

If you haven't already, in raids turn off other player spell effects (or limited). This will remedy this problem instantly. In addition, make sure you're not directly standing on top of someone as this does make it harder to see. Also, use sprint, it's a short cooldown and super useful.

I still cant see the markers if player effects are off. I stand with other players because if I don't my Medicas or Cure 3s don't reach other players. Also, I try to use sprint often.

Secondly, you do not need to tunnel vision healthbars. This is not a good play habit. You should glance at most and only heal when you truly need to. Let your regens do work especially if there is no upcoming damage.

I can't just glance because I can't read information that fast, I need to actually look at it so I can see what is going on. I also don't have very good peripheral vision so I cant see it either unless I turn my gaze over to the hp bars and look at it for a bit to see who has buffs or debuffs, who is dying, and so on.

Others covered this already, but I'll echo it. Use focus target. Tankbusters are not very fast. Not only that, if you merely look at the boss he clearly lifts his sword in the air and holds it for roughly 5s before hitting the tank. That is yet another clue the TB is coming. Time your heal to hit around the same time the tank takes the hit and it looks like he never even got hit.

I think your anxiety about the content is actually making it much harder for you than it should be. Take a deep breath, you almost always have more time than you need so don't feel rushed or overcompensate.

And yes, I have high anxiety with playing with other people. I don't like playing with other people. I actually play better when I solo (hence why I was able to solo EX Ifrit and EX Titan, no anxiety with having seven other people to deal with), it's one reason why I like to play Black Desert at times because I don't have anxiety since you can literally solo almost all pve content (except for when another comes by and pks me but even then its minimal because I don't pvp so I just sit there and let them take the karma penalty lol). I started playing this game because I got tired of all the p2w bs of BDO and BnS and others just like them. Also, I love FFXIV's story (even if some pats are predictable or wtf this doesn't make sense :cough: Zenos :cough: lol) where BDO's doesn't make sense and both BnS and BDO have terrible localizations where its too hard to follow the story. FFXIV is truly the best MMO out there right now. but, it is also the first game in a long time where they actually force you to do group content like dungeons and stuff just to progress which is too bad :/ I wish games took the the design philosophy of actually allowing you to have more than one option to progress (BDO is particularly bad about this but I wont whine about that here.)

[KaldeaSahaline]

I think this is good but not enough. You can't just leave the pass fail thing to just that quest/lesson. That same stuff that needs to be continuously being used in the next lesson and the next lesson while each one give you new stuff to learn as well. This increases complexity and forces someone I think to realize oh, I need to keep doing this in addition to dealing with this and so on. The best metroidvanias I've noticed do this very well. FFXIV seem to lack this kind of build up for player abilities and mechanics.

I apologize if you felt that I meant one and done lesson. No it 100% should be an ongoing and ever building experience. I.e. Job quest teaches the lesson, next dungeon enforces it. etc. etc.

So what do I do if a DPS takes massive damage and a mechanic shows up where they are almost guaranteed to die regardless if I have regen on them? Usually I just use Tetragammation or the other one (cant remember its name atm x_x). Do I not use that to keep them alive and save it for a tank buster? Wouldn't I then be wasting a quickcast when I raise them (I always save quickcast in boss fights for raise).

Most damage taken is easily numerous GCD's apart allowing you to use your ST big heals to correct a mistake. Another key thing to be aware of is that you do not NEED to have every single party member at 100% HP 100% of the time. If there is no upcoming damage for 15s (very common), you do not need to spam heal each party member. Most tank busters are single target, you don't need oGCD's to heal that.

I still cant see the markers if player effects are off. I stand with other players because if I don't my Medicas or Cure 3s don't reach other players. Also, I try to use sprint often.

Medica has an enormous range. You do not need to stand directly on top of people for this to hit. Cure 3's range is much smaller, and is much better suited to using after "stack" resolution mechanics. Immediately after that, spread back out slightly, don't grow roots. There's honestly no excuse to not see the marker. You need to work on that.

Also, if you're not familiar with slide-casting you should practice it, as it's incredibly valuable. If you need me to explain it let me know.

I can't just glance because I can't read information that fast, I need to actually look at it so I can see what is going on. I also don't have very good peripheral vision so I cant see it either unless I turn my gaze over to the hp bars and look at it for a bit to see who has buffs or debuffs, who is dying, and so on.

Damage only occurs like every 15s or so, that's WAY more than enough time to discern what you need to do and react. Also, if you can't see your party frames without turning your head, you need to move your UI to better suit you. I am a tank, and my party frame literally sits directly next to my character.

And yes, I have high anxiety with playing with other people. I don't like playing with other people. I actually play better when I solo (hence why I was able to solo EX Ifrit and EX Titan, no anxiety with having seven other people to deal with), it's one reason why I like to play Black Desert at times because I don't have anxiety since you can literally solo almost all pve content (except for when another comes by and pks me but even then its minimal because I don't pvp so I just sit there and let them take the karma penalty lol). I started playing this game because I got tired of all the p2w bs of BDO and BnS and others just like them. Also, I love FFXIV's story (even if some pats are predictable or wtf this doesn't make sense :cough: Zenos :cough: lol) where BDO's doesn't make sense and both BnS and BDO have terrible localizations where its too hard to follow the story. FFXIV is truly the best MMO out there right now. but, it is also the first game in a long time where they actually force you to do group content like dungeons and stuff just to progress which is too bad :/ I wish games took the the design philosophy of actually allowing you to have more than one option to progress (BDO is particularly bad about this but I wont whine about that here.)

Unfortunately, this is an MMO not a single player game, but you can overcome this anxiety. One tip I can offer you is don't simply react to a fight or you'll never learn or remember anything. Observe and learn. It won't be easy at first, but you'd be surprised at how much of you playing is muscle memory and how little is you actually observing, understanding, and learning.