Would you like an in-game parser?

[HoodRat]

It's like a girl who learns things easily talking down to a person who is having problems learning the same subject. The girl thinks its easy to learn and do while the other person thinks its the hardest thing in the world even though they are trying their hardest to learn the subject at hand. Maybe once in a while consider that not everyone has the same concept of easy or difficulty that you guys have, just maybe consider it.

But according to you

For people like them or me for that matter, these fights are difficult, even if we know the mechanics like the back of our hands.

The other person in your example, while thinking the subject is the hardest thing in the world, will still be claiming they know it like the back of their hand...

Which is exactly how it happens in this game. Like that one pld who was complaining about getting kicked from Shinryu Ex for not having high dps. "I have 9 weapons I've cleared multiple times I know exactly what I'm doing," yet their best was gray iirc, so clearly they didn't know what they were doing.

And as I said earlier, even if people attempt to help people learn/do better/whatever, the helper is usually attacked. So you can say all you want about how people don't learn as easily as others, it doesn't matter at all if they don't even want to learn in the first place.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip

Knowing how to do something and screwing it up is not mutually exclusive. People aren't perfect and mistakes will happen. To me it sounds like that tank was having a bad day. It happens.

I do agree with you about people who aren't willing to learn. The question though is what can a game developer do to force people to learn, even if said people don't want to learn? You can't stop them from buying the game and screwing people over with their bad attitudes.

snip

Let me list the things that I think make the fight a challenge for people like me.

1) A ton of mechanics happening all at once like aoes with dice and thundercloud. Especially if I am also trying to heal the tank but my oGCD are on cd and so I cant cast a quick spell to heal them. Or I am trying to get Medica II back up but i have to keep moving and I don't have an available quickcast. this is particularly difficult near the last 10 percent of Susano's health bar.
2) The purple marker for the lightning when you have to dash across to the other side. It's too small and I can barely see it past the other stuff that is going on. I have to be constantly looking at the party to make sure hp levels are good and no one is dying and the battlefield making sure I don't have the stupid marker on.
3) Same with the dice, I cant see the marker until almost too late. When grouped together with other people, it cant be seen very well.
4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.
5) I understand that most fights are scripted but I cannot memorize all of the events that are going to happen in the fight and when they occur at what minute or second. I would write them down but I don't have time to look down from the screen for a second before someone is eating an attack that needs healed through and if I do have a moment, I'm not going to be looking down because everyone expects me to be dpsing at that point.

Those are the main issues, if I think of more I will let you know. Yes I know the mechanics but it doesn't make the fight any easier.

[akaneakki]

Yes I know the mechanics but it doesn't make the fight any easier.

Honestly that makes no sense. Why doesn't it make it easier? Doing it over again and again and again makes it easier? Isn't that how you master something? Like education, you need those things stuck in your head till you can do it without an issue. I'm not saying to treat the game as university, all I'm saying is, you make it sound like it's random mechanics dishing out everytime they happen or you barely have time to react, which you do have time to.

1: There is a mechanic where thunder cloud on a random corner happens, which you need to dodge away from the group, however, that thundercloud mechanic doesn't happen with dice. So you can move to a side that makes it less walk back to boss, aka you do it in the front of the boss. Like first one as a melee, I get pushed in front of the boss, so I don't need to walk all the way back from the entrance to the boss, so I have more uptime. You don't need to medica 2 asap either, you have time to heal them before anything happens, if they get hit by dice that's their own fault and honestly standing still shoulnd't even be a issue at all. With the current gear, you don't even die from it.
2: Thunder marker with the dash is so easy to see, honestly you don't even need time to see it. Because if its not in the front, its mostlikely on the side which you should also see easily and if it's not there, its behind you, so you have time. There is aboslutely no mechanics that happens that fast in that fight for you to need to react with lightingspeed, so no.
3: When dice you don't even need to be stacked, the aoe heals reach easily, so why are you stacking yourself up? There are many fights in this game like teathers where you want to split with the other player, which you don't want to stack on top of each other to make it easier to go on a direction you both go on opposite side. .
4: Tank busters are SCRIPTED. They are SLOW cast and you can easily excog as a sch on a tank before it happens and they get healed fast. Honestly this is why I KNOW you don't know the fight as you claim. The fact you say the tank buster is fast, makes you not as good as you think you are in the fight. The fight is so extremely scripted, there is no excuse for not healing the tank in time or even react to the buster.
5: same with 4 pretty much. Honestly.... if you done a fight many times it should be stuck in your head, that's how it is for me at least. Like this game has a lot of fun fights. but for some people like myself they get boring after a while, if you farm them at least, because it's the same thing over again and again.

There is a difference knowing the mechanics than remembering when they come and why they even exist.Just because you know the mechanics doesn't mean you know the fight . There is a difference there, like a big difference. If a great healer knows the fight in and out, he wil be avaible to push 2k easily there, while a healer who knows mechanic but not the fight woulnd't try to push as high or not even avaible to, because they have the same mind as yourself; aoe is random, tank buster is too fast etc etc. which they are not.
Example is when a person comes to a group saying they know the mecanics, yet they join and can't do the fight. That means they don't know the fight, sure they know mechanics, well how it works in some sort of way, but the fight? Nope. That's what makes the difference between good and bad players. Good players know WHY and how a mechanic work aka know the fight, while a decent player or a bad one knows the mechanics but doesn't know how the fight itself is.

Edit: Like O1s, why does a whm do benediction on tank or fully heal the group when charbydis is happening right after aoe? What's the point to full up a group of hp when the healers know they will be at 1 hp again?

For them they think its an easy thing. For others this is probably extremely difficult. However, their post comes off condescending and not at all attempting to think that "oh, maybe its a little difficult for them to set that up"

It's a tanks job to move the boss, so it should be easy. Moving it slightly to the left for them shouldn't be a issue at all. And how on earth is that elitist? Please explain.

[AphraelAmarantha]

Snip

Unfortunately, doing it over and over again isn't productive for me and thus why it doesn't make it easier for me. Not everyone learns the same way.

Never said I was a good healer and all I said was that i knew the mechanics. Not for sure why you think that I believe myself a good healer when I know I'm not. That's a pretty big assumption you have going there lol.

I do agree with you that there is a difference in knowing the mechanics and knowing the fight. I do know the fight is scripted, and as I told you before, I can't memorize that kind of timing, usually I have to write things down. For me though, this game moves pretty fast, faster than I can analyze what is going on at a given moment in most ex battles and that doesn't give me time to look at my sheet and go "uhm what comes next again?" for the next ten seconds.

Also, you think it shouldn't be an issue to move the boss but maybe some tanks do have issues getting a boss to move. If this wasn't an issue, I doubt you would even come across this problem unless they were trolling.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.

... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You determine difficulty on the basic of the most rudimentary tank mechanic that defines every single fight outside dungeon bosses? I'll be blunt. If this is difficult for you, you aren't ready to heal EX primals. Your personal struggles does not make a fight hard, but simply means you lack the experience. Nidhogg and Sophia were much harder fights when I was new to raiding. That doesn't make them difficult but shows my inexperience. Regardless, Tank busters are entirely scripted and among the easiest mechanics to deal with because they have little if any variance. Susano will always use Stormspliter at the beginning, and will use it again at the same point unless you skip the buster entirely. Good tanks will mitigate through this with little problem.

The rest of your post boils down to you lacking experience and conflating that to mean the fights themselves are difficult. You being unable to see the markers only adds credence to the above argument; you need more experience.

[AphraelAmarantha]

snip.

ok so say I do the fight 900 times and I still have the same problems, would that still be no experience or is it because I have bad eyes and I cant see the markers or I cant memorize when the tank buster comes out and so on? Or am I retarded and I need to see a doctor because I can't play like most people? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to say here since you don't seem to understand why I have issues after I already explained it.

[AmeliaVerves]

I understand that most fights are scripted but I cannot memorize all of the events that are going to happen in the fight and when they occur at what minute or second. I would write them down but I don't have time to look down from the screen for a second before someone is eating an attack that needs healed through

Extended combat logs are great for something like that.
In fflogs you see exact timings and at what second the bosses attack hits the tank/the group and even how much damage every partymember took at which exact second.
I am main WHM myself and play it in raids. When I had problems with O3s during progress I analysed our logs and worked out a rotation (when to use oGCDs and when to better keep them and stuff) for the fight looking at the timings of bosses attacks and incoming damage.
I admit it was a lot of maths, working out how to fit your gcd and times of movement to the damage incoming and stuff, but you can also see where you have downtimes and people need only little healing and it is safe to throw some dps.

Would it help you to have something like this ingame?
(Generally interested, not trying to make a point here. )

[Tridus]

1) A ton of mechanics happening all at once like aoes with dice and thundercloud. Especially if I am also trying to heal the tank but my oGCD are on cd and so I cant cast a quick spell to heal them. Or I am trying to get Medica II back up but i have to keep moving and I don't have an available quickcast. this is particularly difficult near the last 10 percent of Susano's health bar.

I had real problems with this too, for a long time. In opposition to the "it's super easy" people, Susano Ex was kind of a nightmare for me and this part was the main reason why. The easiest fix is more DPS. He does things in order on a timer, and the nastiest combinations are towards the end. If you kill him faster, you see fewer of them.

That means not dying to the easier ones early on, timing party buffs to max DPS, and since you appear to be a WHM, firing off your own DPS whenever you have time and MP. Every bit helps!

Aside from that, Churn (the dice) don't kill anyone by themselves, so you typically have a bit of time to heal between it and the next thing. If someone baits the cloud the wrong way there isn't much you can do but try to get out, but Churn and something else can be handled by Assize, or Plenary Indulgence if you have the confessions. If your cohealer is a SCH, Indom is a godsend at that point.

2) The purple marker for the lightning when you have to dash across to the other side. It's too small and I can barely see it past the other stuff that is going on. I have to be constantly looking at the party to make sure hp levels are good and no one is dying and the battlefield making sure I don't have the stupid marker on.

One trick here is to listen to the audio. He actually has vocal cues when this mechanic starts. There's one line for the "one person run over" lightning marker, and another one for the "everyone but the marked person run over" lightning marker. I *think* it's "Heark you to the tilmuteous heavens" for the first one, and "Now cometh our part, make way" for the second one.

If you hear the second audio cue, it's easy: start running to the other side and go where the group goes. If you can't run, the marker is on you.

For the first one it's a bit harder to see who the marker is on when people are stacked. My trick is to back up a couple of steps whenever I see the marker. If it goes backwards, it's on me. If it doesn't, it's not (since nobody else tends to back up on it, this usually helps).

3) Same with the dice, I cant see the marker until almost too late. When grouped together with other people, it cant be seen very well.

The dice also have an audio call out, and you get a debuff for them well before the counter over your head starts. I don't remember what the audio line is, but he does this in phase 1 so you should be able to listen for it and see the debuffs go up to figure it out. It's the debuff you should be looking for. If you get that, you know you will get the overhead dice when the debuff timer hits 3.

4) Tank busters. These come out very fast and I don't see them coming because I'm not looking at the cast bar when they pop up because I'm paying attention to health levels. It's usually when I'm dpsing is when I usually see it coming.

Set him as a focus target and put that bar in a spot you'll notice. There isn't really an easier way to deal with it. That said, if the tanks are doing it correctly, the OT should Provoke right after Stormsplitter lands and thus the MT shouldn't die immediately anyway. I do like to toss up Divine Benison on the MT before it lands just for some extra cushion, because sometimes the OT is slow. Tetra is also your friend here. (On SCH, I can Aldo or Lustrate it.)

5) I understand that most fights are scripted but I cannot memorize all of the events that are going to happen in the fight and when they occur at what minute or second. I would write them down but I don't have time to look down from the screen for a second before someone is eating an attack that needs healed through and if I do have a moment, I'm not going to be looking down because everyone expects me to be dpsing at that point.

Those are the main issues, if I think of more I will let you know. Yes I know the mechanics but it doesn't make the fight any easier.

Yeah, I had this problem too. I don't learn much by watching a video, I learn by doing. That means failing each and every mechanic until I get them individually, after which I can do better on the fight. It takes time, and practice. If you're anything like me, knowing the mechanics and doing the mechanics are different. That said, if you stick with it, you can get it done. Once you do it enough times you can put it all together and it'll click. It just takes us more times for that to happen than some of the other players here, who are frankly a lot better than I am.

It also helps if you find a friend who knows it who can help you on voice chat, because you can talk over issues with them in real time.

[akaneakki]

I love how everyone is saying "Its easy!" and then list all these issues that people seem to have with end game content. All of you seem to be contradicting yourselves..

Way to make things out of context huh? Anyways, since you say its hard/difficult, can you explain why? We also compared susano/lakashmi to other primals they previously had from heavensward/arr and most agree think they are easy. Like I really would like to know why YOU think it's hard. There are issues with end game because people can't do either of following:
Enough dps
Doesn't know mechanics
or both.

Example 1 of a healer: Just because you healed the fight 1000 times, doesn't make you a good healer. Far from it. I've seen healers medica 2 in susano when there is no aoe, I see healers heal something that doesn't exist. I see tanks only save cooldowns for tank buster when you only need 1 per buster, so why not just mitigate some auto attacks so healers can dish out more dps? Example of a tank: Just because you can mitigate a damn tank buster doesnt make you a good tank. What makes you a great tank is to mitigate things the best way possible, where the boss is located at and dish out good amount of damage. I can't count how many times I've asked tanks to put susano on the edge of the black line in the middle so the melee can hit the boss from opposite side with thunder mark. Why is that so extremely hard, I mean.. why is it so extremely hard to do such an easy thing? So again, please explain why susano and lakashmi is hard.

I
For people like them or me for that matter, these fights are difficult, even if we know the mechanics like the back of our hands. .

If its still difficult, then you clearly don't know the fight. It's like saying you ride on a bike for the first time, which can be hard, but after weeks, months even years of riding on a bike you think it's hard. In most scenarios, it's not.

[Miste]

For people like them or me for that matter, these fights are difficult, even if we know the mechanics like the back of our hands. The only reason you guys call the fights "easy" because of your skewed perspective based upon having far better skill than the rest of us, hence why you get called elitists.

Wait...wait....

Let me get this straight.....

People are elitists now just because they hold the opinion and/or have the skill to find a particular piece of content easy and if they dare share that opinion?

You always think you've seen everything....

It is fine if you (and others) hold the opinion that a piece of content is difficult for you, but just because some people find that same content easy does not make them elitist and they have just as much right to share their opinion as you do. Drift back down to earth and realize you shouldn't be calling people negative terms like elitist just for simply sharing their opinion on the difficulty level of a piece of content.