Complexity/Sensory Overload

[Snugglebutt]

I doubt I am the only one who has this concern but currently I think SE are almost at a crossroads in terms of the amount of complication for classes, fight mechanics combined with the GUI management. That as individual elements they are fine but in combination, all of them together it is becoming problematic and detrimental to enjoyment of the content.

I expect some people will just say 'get good' or shit like that but don't waste your time since I won't reply to such comments. This isn't about how good I am, most of the people who will make such snide comments probably have no idea whether I am good or bad. It is about the impact going down this path has on my enjoyment of the content. I am just about okay with how it is now in terms of specific element complexity but I do feel as though SE are coming towards the line in the sand, that if continue down this path with future content then they will start suffering more and more as people get put off playing.

The current level of complexity of the classes are okay if were just that which needed to focus on (quantity of skills in many cases requiring the management of 3-4 shortcut bars full of skills and potions etc, often macro shortcut bars too, juggling so many GCD/oGCD and procs plus positionals, instant cast and cast timed skills etc). The complication of the classes combined with complexity of the fight mechanics together is also just about bare-able...but when combined with the GUI management it goes too far in my opinion. It is not a single element that is the problem but when all the elements are combined that I think becomes an issue personally.

You merely have two eyes yet your keeping an eye on chat window in-case someone asks for help or is in trouble, changing of battle plans or giving others information or updates in the fight. Keeping an eye on the party/group box to help manage TP/MP or HP plus monitoring buffs and debuffs on the group. Keeping eye on the boss/mob window/box for it's current health and skill use, debuffs and such alongside trying to keep track of the little tiny countdown timers. Keeping an eye on your own buffs and tiny little countdown timers plus an eye on your procs as well as having to focus on your shortcut bars to make sure click the right skills when they do proc if they are not part of your keyboard mapped ones.

At the same time having to keep an actual eye on the content itself like position of the other players, the boss or mob, it's AoE's and yourself. Your eyes constantly darting around the screen to all these things which leaves very little time to actually visually enjoy even being there because your basically spending all your time juggling your focus and your sight between the icons, timers, bars, windows and boxes mostly. From what I have seen others say it is also becoming a problem for controller users not having enough ways/buttons to manage the ever increasing number of skills, though I use KB/M so that specific issue is not the same one I have.

For me is at a tipping point between what is fun and what is a bit too much work, if becomes simply too much work then I think a lot people would rather do their actual RL work because at least they are getting paid for that. I think SE needs to stop adding 'additional' new and different purpose skills from this point on to pre-existing classes, instead if add any then those should be direct 'replacement' skills for older lower level ones so that we won't have to keep adding even more skill shortcut bars...the new skills being more powerful versions of pre-existing ones which replace the old ones on the already existing shortcut bars.

If SE adds any new classes they should be no more complex and convoluted than the current classes are. SE in my opinion should now stop trying to make the classes even more complex and refocus their own attention on simply just making the fight mechanics more complex instead. Maybe try to find a way to improve the UI too so that players get to spend more time focused on the content and less time focused on having to micro manage the little tiny timers and icon locations, icon procs, the multiple boxes, bars and windows if possible.

It's like renting a film which is subtitled, having to spend 25-50% of the time staring at the text at the bottom of the screen plus having to solve a crossword puzzle in a newspaper on your lap while trying to memorize a series of continually changing song lyrics or multiple song lyrics if play multiple classes all at the same time. You end up missing the content being shown above in the actual film itself. All I am saying is I think we are reaching a tipping point of information overload when combined class complexity, fight complexity and GUI management personally. That they can't keep going down that path forever, it becomes unsustainable and detrimental or counter productive in the long run.

[Alahra]

Yoshi-P alluded to this a little himself in the recent Live Letter, mentioning that the greater complexity of the classes is making it more difficult to meet assumed DPS levels for raid content. It's possible that we'll see some streamlining of rotations and the like in 4.0 (they need to lighten keybind bloat as it is).

It also varies by class, too. I'm actually hoping to go back to SCH from NIN in part because I've been having difficulty maintaining my DPS and also adhering to fight mechanics lately, and I think I'll do better as a healer. We'll see, though.

[Felis]

A way to remove keybind bloat for DoM classes:
- remove all the AoE spells that have for the same effect a single target spell
- bring back the AoE toggle from 1.0, that allow to switch between single target and AoE for the spells

[Artamie]

Your eyes constantly darting around the screen to all these things which leaves very little time to actually visually enjoy even being there

I very much agree with this. Added with time limit the aesthetics of scenery is completely lost on me. They may as well been grey corridors and rooms.

Admittedly this gets better the more accustomed to your role/the choreography you get.. but still...

[Whiteroom]

We have more diffi ult rotations and easier bosses. I would rather see it the otber way around, where rotations were more simple, but bosses aer more complex. I would rather watch a boss than a hot bar, something i don't need to do on ky main, but on my alts, my focus is on my rotation and dodging. I would like to see streamlining in 4.0, as well.as more traits instead of skills, or minimal skills.

[DWolfwood]

I play with controller and mentioned in another thread that I could accommodate another ~15 abilities. While playing, I tend to be trying to look at as many things as possible, while focusing on one thing at a time, so basically I'm looking at the big picture while being focused rather than my eyes darting from little thing to little thing back and forth. That would drive me crazy honestly. Not calling you bad or to get good, but that's my perspective.

I think there's things they can add to help people though, rather than just stop adding new abilities. Personally, I don't want expansions that don't bring new class changes, including abilities. However, things like darkening DoT abilities until they've worn off would be an example of a small change to add. They could also make L1 work like R1 does and remove the autorun mapping. Autorun could be configured to some other combination of buttons like how sheathe/draw is. They could also implement some kind of system that allows for more audio/visual cues during fights.

Basically, I think there are things to be done that can push that line in the sand much further than it is rather than sacrifice things like new abilities, which would make me sad.

[Animarelic]

The issue with me is the hotkey combo system and management of it feels awkward compared to Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul and other action based mmos that have tons of skills but put them in pre combo format freeing up hotkeys making the UI cleaner and more easy to respond to. Even the Macro system leaves much to be desired. I can even say FFXI's macro system was better developed than FFXIV's in that you could remove the bloat of excess skills.

While i'm not personally stressed yet, If they add too many skills next expansion without making some kind of adjustment not even muscle memory will be enough to keep up with the demand. It also in a way hinders the development of more engaging battles by creating battles with an artificial difficulty. Most of the battles are hard because of the physical strain they put on the player's natural coordination learning curve, not the game being naturally difficult to begin with.

[Cynthis]

Bravo! I completely agree with this post. On controller I find any class other than BLM pretty much unbareable to play because of these issues exactly.

[Xlantaa]

I have no issues with controller (wll, when runs out of battery...) And I can even acomodate another 16 more skills without problem. Otherwise, I find keyboard + mouse terrible hard to play. I need 56 fingers to use the keyboard. So, I play with combination of Gamepad + Mouse. I don0t need look much at my hotbars, cause I memorize all them for all classes. Also I follow similar schemes for all classes. For example, main combo on melee are always in the same buttons, or DoTs or Skill like Blood for Blood are always in the same buttons for all classes. THis makes me easy to memorize all the hotbars. This way I can put attetion to the HUD and the mechancis,and forget a bit about the hotbars, only checking when CD are up is all I need.

[Snugglebutt]

I have no issues with controller (wll, when runs out of battery...) And I can even acomodate another 16 more skills without problem. Otherwise, I find keyboard + mouse terrible hard to play. I need 56 fingers to use the keyboard. So, I play with combination of Gamepad + Mouse. I don0t need look much at my hotbars, cause I memorize all them for all classes. Also I follow similar schemes for all classes. For example, main combo on melee are always in the same buttons, like DoT or Skill like Blood for Blood are always in the same buttons for all classes. THis makes me easy to memorize all the hotbars. THis way I can put attention to the HUD and the mechanics and forget a bit about the hotbars, only checking when CD are up is all I need.

On classes which have fixed rotations it's less of a problem but on master weaving ones or ones like machinist for example you have to keep an eye on the skill icons to check if they do or do not proc since your rotation is linked to procs to a high degree. Even ones that do not rely on procs so much I still think there is too much going on in the monitoring of the icons, timers, bars, boxes and windows when in combination of the class complexity and fight mechanics all together.

I feel like I rarely get to enjoy taking part in the content because I am not even getting to spend much time watching whats going on outside of micro managing the GUI like tiny timers on tiny buff/debuff icons on mobs/the group and yourself, having to look at position of cursor vs shortcut bar icons a lot because it is almost impossible to keyboard map and control adequately 3-4 shortcut bars full of skills/macros and potions without using mouse to make up for lack of fingers, so many GCD's and oGCD's to manage, procs on the icons plus 3 or 4 bars full of icons itself is not ideal, mentally managing rotations (worse on master weaving rather than fairly static/routine ones), positionals plus also monitoring HP/TP and MP bars, chat boxes and more while also expected to keep an eye on the content itself for party member positions, your position, boss position/skill use and it's AoE's while mentally juggling all the rotations and mechanics.

I feel like I need to be cross-eyed just to keep an eye on everything these days when playing plus and even though at this current stage I can cope just about with it all...I do not get to enjoy it much. I also know SE can't keep going down this path adding more complexity to all three elements before becoming ever more detrimental to the gameplay and most people's experience playing it. I don't expect everyone to agree as everyone has their own line in the sand or crossroads at which that point exists, for me though we have reached that point now and I hope SE stops and changes course from this point on.

I think we have reached to limit on how far they should go with class complexity and should go down the path of new skills being direct higher level more powerful replacements for pre-existing lower level skills rather than adding more new purpose skills which further clog up/increase the shortcut bars. They should continue to add more classes but keep their complexity to no higher than current complexity of pre-existing classes. I think they have plenty of room to go down more complexity to the fight mechanics/variety aspect though so SE should maybe focus on that more than class complexity going forward. I think the GUI needs streamlining and improving because that has slightly crossed the line in my opinion with that element drawing too much focus away from the actual content itself taking part in. As I said though I admit it is subjective and preferential as to how far is too far for each person.