Dear SE: Please Don't Do This

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

SE, I understand that you must maintain your bottom line when it comes to content (that is, providing incentive to keep older content alive through newer updates). And I even understand the importance of doing so. But it must be said that the veiled attempts to revive/keep aging content alive through new grinds or purely-by-numbers token farming is creating the very negative effect of aging content even faster.

Let's look at the Relic for example - the grind of all grinds. I stand by my own personal criticism that where you had an opportunity to try something different and possibly more interesting/engaging, you instead opted for a mashup rehash of Zodiac's Atma, Animus, and Zodiac stages, with new numbers attached. Yes, this revived Heavensward's (HVW from this point forward) FATEs for a time, but as that step was completed to varying degrees/speeds, many people simply just stopped doing them again. I personally have never been much a fan of FATEs, but when content essentially forces me to zero in on that one type of content, it doesn't exactly win me over more. I speak only for myself, yes, but I'm sure others may agree somewhere. There's also the hard-to-ignore fact that you've been using the Relic as a catalyst now to revive/sustain aging/unpopular content (i.e. Aether Oils as a Tower weekly reward. . . Yes. People wanted to run the towers again, and this was your answer. But it was a temporary fix at best.) I can't say not to do this, but this does only cement my earlier criticism that the Relic is rather uninspired and a catalyst for content life-support now.

The Alexander (Normal) Loot System: Not a bad idea in practice, no. But weekly lockouts and its own better Savage variant (that is Loot to roll on + token distribution) eclipses it several times over. Please take this into consideration going forward. I don't mind the token system in place (though having to wait 2 weeks to get a body/leg piece by design alone isn't so enjoyable).

Allagan Tomestones: The system has been around forever now, and while it's not an issue by itself, low weekly caps that all but prevent immediate progress (unless perhaps you prioritize accessories) effectively cripples the system. Furthermore, there's the very real effect in the community of hitting said weekly caps and thus, stopping all activity entirely. Not everyone does this, no, but if I perhaps hit the cap through PvP then friends want to run Alexander (NM) again to hit their caps, even I have to admit to a certain degree of feet-dragging to run the content, yet again, and this time for nothing at all. What I'd propose - and what I hope you might consider - is perhaps a reduction in tomes gained once these caps are met. That way, players may still find incentive to engage content, even if gaining tomes at a significantly lower rate (to the absolute high end cap of 2000). Yes, some will simply push and grind out 2000 on a weekly basis, and more power to them if they have the time and drive to do so. This also ensures the content stays "alive" weekly instead of coming to near-dead stops as the week goes by.

Lore Weapons/Midan Gears: This was a big no-no. Perhaps it was a premeditated move on your part to ensure non-Savage raiding players would all gain access to i230 weapon options at the same time (that is Lore vs Relic, as preferred), but what you did was literally FORCE players to be bound to running Midas (if only just Burden of the Son) for 7 weeks solid. Assuming players were diligent and made sure to do just that 7 weeks in a row, of course. (I did. I really wanted a Lore weapon. I'm still on the "unidentifiable" part of the Relic, with little incentive to make a push to complete it. Hyperconductive step tokens already acquired and waiting to be useful.) Now as Midas begins to age, you can feel the drive to run it declining. The skill level of the players actively running it now declining as players naturally slower and/or lesser skilled [Please Note: This is not an insult, but an observation] are now the majority engaging it. The rest have Lore weapons/Relics, and whether actively raiding Savage or not, are beginning to yearn for the next big thing. . . Here's the point: On top of the typical token grind (which already usually took 3 weeks with Rowena Tokens), you literally bound players to a 7 week wait for a sub-raid, non-Relic weapon. Maybe this kept Sephirot weapons/farms alive for a bit, but instead of varying options, we got a time-based, non-Relic grind. Don't do this again. I have the Lore weapon I wanted. . . and now zero desire to wait 7 more weeks, with only Savage-raiding (which I WANT to do but am currently unable to due to work/schedule conflicts) or a "lesser" primal weapon as my alternatives.

This is no whine thread, but a caution to SE to really look closely at the systems in place as far as endgame progression and gearing is concerned. While you've taken a few steps forward, constant, veiled attempts to maintain a bottom line of content activity only serves to age it faster and drive people away from it more and more. As a "theme park" MMO, with various attractions for various tastes and skill levels, do not force players into one attraction in an effort to keep it alive, and do not use other attractions to simply pull people back to older ones. Don't expect people to continue to show interest in attractions with hard-stops to tokens, especially with large numbers required for rewards. It is not wise. It is not fun. Please don't do this.

[Shinsaki]

Win.
/10char

[Xlantaa]

Too late. They already will make you run 10000 times old content for new Anima step.

[Alex_W]

While I do agree on some level with the Midan Gear issue you pointed out, it is actually faster than the equivalent we had in 2.2. Back then, we had ST released in 2.3, which gave items to upgrade our i100 items to i110. However, ST also gave the Allagan tomestone item needed to turn in for our i100 weapon. However, iirc the only options for getting that tomestone was winning the roll in ST, or raiding in Second Coil. Now, in 3.2 we are able to get the i230 weapon at 7 weeks. So, we are actually progressing faster this time around than we did in 2.2.

It is true that in 3.0, we were able to buy the i200 weapon with esoterics without needing any sort of tomestone item. I actually liked that way better personally, but didn't really mind the gear grind myself. That might only be because I was running A8 every week for a drop to get another i220 item for my main/alts though.

[Reynhart]

Actually, the weekly cap make content relevant for a longer period.
Offer a way to farm endlessly, and people will burn it within a week.

The issue with tomestone is not how high the rewards are, or how low the cap is. It's just the exact same system that we get in 2.0. People are bored of the formula because it does not change.

[Kaurie]

I think you are highlighting a point that too much content in this game involves spamming it quickly to get what you want and then forgetting it.

For example FATEs and Relic step, everyone spammed them for a couple of weeks and then they were dead again. A better fix is not to make it part of an end-game weapon step, but perhaps add some sort of better constant reward. For example, perhaps FATEs could have a higher payout of Gil once you no longer get exp from them. Another option is to have a higher payout of Grand Company seals, and provide a better use for Grand Company seals on an on-going basis (i.e. being able to buy food or potions with them, as they are consumable, people will need to continue buying them).

For example Tomes, people do their expert on Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri - and done. Then they get a few days off from having to worry about it before they do it again next week. Perhaps we need a better reason to want to run expert dungeons.

Instead of having the rewards be very high but on a time gate resulting in spamming and burnout, perhaps rewards should be more appropriately tailored for the content and provide a slower paced consistent level of satisfaction.

[Ashkendor]

Back then, we had ST released in 2.3, which gave items to upgrade our i100 items to i110. However, ST also gave the Allagan tomestone item needed to turn in for our i100 weapon. However, iirc the only options for getting that tomestone was winning the roll in ST, or raiding in Second Coil. Now, in 3.2 we are able to get the i230 weapon at 7 weeks. So, we are actually progressing faster this time around than we did in 2.2.

That tomestone didn't even go into Syrcus Tower right away. For a long time it was only available in Coil.

[RiceisNice]

That tomestone didn't even go into Syrcus Tower right away. For a long time it was only available in Coil.

It was immediately available in ST when ST was released, just not as a 100% drop.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

Wait what? Did you really make a thread saying that rewarding people for doing content is somehow a bad thing? lolz Crystal Tower was dead before aether oils came out. So you want them to not include old content into anima quests, so that old content just stays dead forever?

Now as Midas begins to age, you can feel the drive to run it declining. The skill level of the players actively running it now declining as players naturally slower and/or lesser skilled

Quoted from your own post, is exactly why this carebear mentality doesn't work in online games.... When you give out all the rewards super quickly, ppls drive to play the game goes down exponentially.... Offline games is fine to do this, but not for MMO cuz it's suppose to be MULTIPLAYER, which is the second acronym in MMORPG

[Vaer]

There's both sides really. Some people want older content to remain relevant, others don't.

I mean each zodiac step had a number of different ways to get the items except the crystal part unless you wanted to blow up a Zeta. You could ignore the older content in the other steps and just do the newer content if you wanted. Yeah it would take longer, but that's a choice you have if you can't stand doing 2.0 content.

The 7 gear lore weapon actually lined up with the new relic step. Remember when people were complaining about how the relic was gonna be useless when the patch dropped because the new tome weapon would be easier to get and quicker? Well there you go, that's SE's answer. (Unless you are a raider then it doesn't matter since you had access to the stone if your group was good enough without having to wait that long.)

If you were good enough to do Sephirot EX you got a weapon upgrade before others but for everyone else that is a non-raider it kept the relic a decent weapon if they did the grind for it. So now you have the option of foregoing the lore weapon and spending the lore on something else if your relic weapon has good secondaries.

Obviously who knows how annoying the next step is going to be so you should still probably get the lore weapon if upgrading it to 240 ends up easier than the relic option but since the patch is still around a month away there is still some time to get the weapon ready.