Question, why does Bard and Machinist share the same core mechanic?

[Caitlyn]

First, I thought BRD and MCH are different.
But in fact, they share the same mechanics for the most part. Many classes share the same mechanics, but BRD and MCH share the most.

Balancing or not, there would be a better way to keep both sides satisfied.
An example:

Machinist:
- No Changes
-> Range-DPS with fast casts and high burst

Bard:
- Remove Wanderers Menuett (but keep skills from WM)
- Add piercing damage-buff
- Increase potency on skills, when both DoTs are up
-> Range-DPS with higher mobility

I think, that most people stop playing Bard because of WM. It just changed the movement of this class from "agile" into "slow".

[Laerune]

Its easier to balance when the classes play very similiar, this is one of the reasons why MMORPG these days have carbon copy of classes..

[Warlyx]

the issue with BRD , iis that SE said that bards will do more dmg in exchange for mobility ...and in the end we got casting times while keeping the same Dps as we have in 2.0

RANDOM NUMBERS out of my "bow":

mnks in 2.0 they did lets say 1000 , brds did 700, now mnks do 2000 and bards 1400....

the % is the same , but brd in 2.0 were the most mobile dps , now? we have to endure casting times.... for what? what we really gained in HW? casting bars and a dispel (that is usefull once in a blue moon , or being a pacification bot) ...yay so fun

if 4.0 doesnt bring anything close to amazing for brds i would reroll or quit , isnt a threat is just how i feel...

[Rufalus]

Obviously there are many differences, but OP is right there are more similarities, they are clearly designed from the same sub-role template. Both are dex-based ranged physical dps, cast time toggle at lv52, TP/MP regen party support, archer/lancer class buffs, an attack that can only be used when enemy is low HP, etc.

I think the way the game is designed will keep forcing jobs to mimic each other. Because each job is assigned a certain party role, their unique skills will always be secondary to the forced requirements of their role. They all need to achieve similar results as other jobs in their category, albeit through slightly different methods.

[Harlow]

I remember before we really knew what the whole "standing still" mechanic was for BRD some people assumed that it would be some kind of stacking buff that just increased damage the longer you stood in one spot. I feel like that would have been so much better than what we got.

[Khalithar]

Having leveled both I can understand how they feel "similar" because of the cast time and having a ranged physical damage weapon. But their playstyles are very different, Mch has RNG and combos, Brd has less rng, an extra dot, etc.

That being said however, while GB/WM are here to stay, I do feel that the complaint that brd/mch both have such a drastic playstyle adjustment that completely changes how they play after 50+ levels is a perfectly valid one.

[Cherie]

This isn't a new topic at all. It's been answered in live letters and other threads.

The devs had mentioned multiple times that bard had few penalties for being ranged. When 2.0 launched, they were easily the highest dps or atleast in the top 3, which is kind of silly considering all the upsides and mobility they had. Soon after there were some sweeping nerfs to break them closer to the end of the dps charts. Even with all that, in the live letters the devs still said bard had it too easy compared to others jobs. They wanted to implement cast times to bard way back in 2.0.

It's the dev's vision. This is how they see a ranged class. They don't believe they should have infinite mobility (I mean you can have it but not at 100% dps output). If you have played bard and machinist (which I assume) you know that machinist has a easier time with the cast time mechanic because of the ammo skill. Machinists have more mobility/dps and perhaps a few more useful utility skills, bards have a few bonus support abilities (well the one anyway, to remove stasis effects, but also they can boost their regen effect for longer duration). Yea they are pretty darn similar but so are other jobs.

[Warlyx]

mch: have +10% physical or magical vulnerability debuff 20s (120s CD) , heavy / knockback , silence/stun ,-5% dmg debuff (physical or magical share cd) , use turrets and a easy time moving thanks to ammo or procs , MP/TP regen is instant cast, disable torret attack

brd: have 10% magical only (no cd but mp limited) , can boost it to 20% ever 5 min , and has bind and silence , dispel now...MP/TP regen 3s casting time and lowers brd dmg by 20%.

oh btw Brd uses MP for FOE, MP ,TP while MCH use the mp only on MP/TP regen , the debuff is CD based no need MP at all.

correct me if im wrong :S

[Elky]

Okay, its mostly Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's Minuet that bug me. Not the skills themselves, but its copy pasted to two different jobs. It is not a split job like Scholar and Summoner sharing Arcanist. Bard and Machinist are independent of eachother. Give one of the the casting stance, then give the other one a different mechanic. The only difference I notice is that Machinist has BS RNG woven into the kit, and Bard has better DOTs I guess, I'm not a bard expert. Its just realllly weird they share that specific skill, at the same specific level, essentially becoming imperfect clones of eachother. They even have similar skills outside of the cast stance. Machinist is a weaker Bard when they get no procs. I really hate rng.

[Airget]

Does anybody know if there is logic behind this? I feel like both lose their uniqueness due to their similarities in skills and how they are played.

Because the ability for ranged to move around freely without restriction and still deal damage was imbalanced. It was easier for Archer/Bard to pretty much ignore mechanics and continue fighting, meanwhile both Blackmage/Summoner and Melee have to do their dance and avoid doing DPS during certain parts. That's why Machinist/Bards get the charge abilities they get to balance it so that they need to be more mindful with enemy AOE effects rather than just run around like chickens with their heads cut off.