Question, why does Bard and Machinist share the same core mechanic?

[Greedalox]

How much running around do you want to do as Brd? I feel that WM was an added bonus and I enjoy playing as Brd. I have no problem standing still to use abilities and if I need to fire off some shots on the move I have plenty of options available so that I can continue to DPS even though I'm moving with Wanderer's Minuet on.

People exaggerate the movement impairment GB gives too. Guess it helps them make a point?

[NaesakiAshwell]

People exaggerate the movement impairment GB gives too. Guess it helps them make a point?

I notice in pre-52 dungeons a lot of Bards love to run and jump around while using their abilities think they are really ace, so I'm guessing they are one of the vocal crowds crying about having to stand still for brief periods >.>

[Ashkendor]

I notice in pre-52 dungeons a lot of Bards love to run and jump around while using their abilities think they are really ace, so I'm guessing they are one of the vocal crowds crying about having to stand still for brief periods >.>

Honestly, I remember multiple incidences in level 50 content where bards running around like derps got me killed.

It's kind of nice not having people running around when they don't need to be.

[Lemuria]

It's kind of nice not having people running around when they don't need to be.

Melee hit twice as hard and can move around all they want. Granted, some of their skills rely on positional attacks, but it's still kind of a double standard especially when the bard/mch spends most of their levels with full mobility and only gets cast bars in their twilight days.

But their playstyles are very different, Mch has RNG and combos, Brd has less rng, an extra dot, etc.

I wouldn't say they're completely different. Both rely on RNG to a certain degree to get the most DPS, though Machinist is more heavily reliant on it (to its detriment).

Basically, machinist gets random procs and bard gets random Bloodletter resets. Of course. the big downside to Machinist is that their skills are weaker than Bard skills by default, and this forces you to rely on procs/ammo to get the same damage. Personally, I wouldn't mind the ammunition count if it worked more like Aetherflow and didn't have a duration. As it stands, it's pretty easy to lose bullets during certain combat phases.

I basically see Machinist as Bards younger brother. Weaker still than the bard, and with less utility to boot. Bard was never known for being a powerhouse DPS, but they could at least compete for the title. Only the luck of the Irish would allow a machinist the same chance.

[Khalithar]

I remember multiple incidences in level 50 content where bards running around like derps

That's a feature of the class 50+ and below.

Though when I did it I found a specific section of the boss arena (depending on the boss) to do it so I wouldn't get in anyone's way. But being a mobile dps is one of the best parts of the class.

[Lemuria]

What they SHOULD have done for Bard was give them fresh new songs, like a haste skill, damage buff song, defense buff song etc. Then the job would genuinely feel like a Bard and less like a budget Ranger. Bard being a fun job with lots of mobility? Let's reduce their mobility with WM, give them cast times and rob them of auto-attacks! Barrage actually pretty powerful? Let's change it so it only works on a single weaponskill, and doesn't allow criticals! It's like they were trying to systematically dismantle the job rather than breathe new life into it.

It's honestly not that surprising that Machinist shares a lot of similarities with Bard. I think the creativity was all used up on Astrologian.

People exaggerate the movement impairment GB gives too. Guess it helps them make a point?

It's still an impairment though. Being able to move freely while maintaining damage was one of Bard's biggest advantages. It meant that no matter what crazy AoE you were forced to dodge it did nothing to your aim. In return, we got a weak damage buff which, at the time, didn't even make up for the loss of auto-attacks. They had to increase the damage by 10%, and even then it barely ties even.

[WhiteArchmage]

What they SHOULD have done for Bard was give them fresh new songs, like a haste skill, damage buff song, defense buff song etc.

I would have welcomed more songs, even if I like Bard as it is, although the meta would have torn BRD apart with those examples. A DMG buff song would need to be used at all times and we already have Foe Requiem, so it would either mare FR useless or just be P.Def version of Foe, in which your casters and healers would fight the tanks and melee over who needs it most. Haste song, I can already hear the monk's cries when you stack haste song + arrow + Selene buff. Defense song, very useful but if it didn't gimp your dps healers would be asking for it at all times, and maybe even if it did. Not saying it can't be done (say, for 4.0) I'm just saying it'll have to go through a lot of testing for balance purposes.

[Morzy]

Probably for the same reason melee classes all have combos, tanks all have tank and damage stances, etc...

MNK does not use combos. One thing i dislike about NIN n DRG.

[Saccharin]

I just find it weird that a new job is released and gets a mechanic, that is also given to another ranged physical dps class they both get the skill at the same level.
So the question is, why give Bard wanderer's minuet? You could've kept that mechanic exclusive to Machinist, but you decided to give it to Bard as well. Does anybody know if there is logic behind this? I feel like both lose their uniqueness due to their similarities in skills and how they are played.

As punishment for moving. From a balance perspective Bard had instants so compared to BLM they didn't get punished for moving. To compensate in HW SE made base bard damage lower so for them to be competitive they now have to use WM. The downside is that moving is now bad - like BLM. The same principle applies to MCH,

Simple really.

[Voltyblast]

As punishment for moving. From a balance perspective Bard had instants so compared to BLM they didn't get punished for moving. To compensate in HW SE made base bard damage lower so for them to be competitive they now have to use WM. The downside is that moving is now bad - like BLM. The same principle applies to MCH,

Simple really.

If I have to get punished for moving, why not just play the BLM at this point? BRD was supposed to be a high mobile dps that had support songs, but right now they're just a weaker version of BLM...so why not play a BLM instead? Infact they get punished for moving too: it's called Ley Lines. However, while Ley Lines was implemented as a High Risk/High Reward mechanic, especially for using Fire and blizzard 4, BLM weren't a mobile class to begin with and so their new mechanic is much better implemented: you either stick for a longer time and do huge dmg, or move and risk to lose your buff and etc. It's a pretty good trade off.

But with BRD and MCH? I mean I honestly wonder why did they have to make them casters to begin with, as they have no real mechanic around their casting times and it only increases their damage: did they REALLY have to completely change BRD this way JUST to make them more balanced? Couldn't they, I don't know, actually improve their damage without this gimmick of having WM? Sure you can only use some skills in GB and WM but that's not a mechanic: that's a lock out. MCH is still better since most of their skills are instant while in GB but again, where are the mechanics? I can use pretty much every skills without them if I wanted except for 2 or 3: the only downside is my damage falling but there's nothing stopping me to use my BRD and MCH without the buffs.

I really loved BRD in ARR and it was my second most played class/job/whatever for the longest time, but right now I just went BLM instead since...well at least I'm an actual caster.