Question, why does Bard and Machinist share the same core mechanic?

[RiceisNice]

I dunno, I don't find that WM feels "pasted on" but I'm not a bard main either so take that as you will. I think MCH is in a better place overall for various reasons, but BRD isn't bad off at all. Maybe there will be further adjustments? Who knows.

When the introduction of cast times doesn't mix well with BRD's previous gameplay (Specifically, using oGCDs that can have it's cooldown reset), and especially when it's functionally the same as gauss barrel, it definitely feels pasted. I'm sure DRGs/NIN would also feel the same if their 3.x skills were also around chakra stacks, or MNKs got their version of BoTD which gave them a 4th combo hit with random positional that further extends GL3, and an ability takes off half it's duration for instant aoe damage. This is coming from a former 2.x bard main; The two jobs draw so many parallels from each other that all MCH really does different is wildfire. Ammo at this point is an oGCD you slam for dps because it's a dps (and tp) loss otherwise, GB loses it's novelty as an "attachment" when BRD does the exact same thing, and the two otherwise watch for procs, maintain dots and buffs (all of which are independent of comboing)

Having a random derp-bard running around and dropping mechanics on you was annoying as hell.

That's less on the fact that BRD is able to move freely, and more on bad players in general.

Because the ability for ranged to move around freely without restriction and still deal damage was imbalanced. It was easier for Archer/Bard to pretty much ignore mechanics and continue fighting, meanwhile both Blackmage/Summoner and Melee have to do their dance and avoid doing DPS during certain parts. That's why Machinist/Bards get the charge abilities they get to balance it so that they need to be more mindful with enemy AOE effects rather than just run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

And despite that, they'd still consistently do less than casters and melee under ideal circumstances, and especially when the fight is known in-and-out. At this point, "unrestricted movement" is a poor excuse, especially when they've done away with that and BRD/MCH still consistently do less than the actual dps jobs (which then I'd chalk up for them being support-dps or w/e)


In the end, I'm more annoyed with how they handled BRD (the introduction of WM, and it doesn't work well with the job that we had to wait until 3.1 just for them to fix straight shot's proc time), how much they cut out of MCH from what they intially had planned, and just in general the poor planning behind the two jobs (because to this day, I'm still baffled to how they thought a 20% damage increase at the cost of auto attacks was going to lead to a dps increase, when auto attacks made up for roughly 20-25% of their dps at the time). There's no resemblance of a traditional ranged-physical dps anymore; they're all casters to an extent.

[Jamillion]

I feel like it was a bad move, but I will say the gameplay is noticeably different between bard and machinist. I dislike machinist very much but it was obviously designed with gauss barrel in mind (regardless of my feelings on the mechanic) whereas wanderers minuet doesn't feel like it really belongs on bard.

[Voltyblast]

I feel like it was a bad move, but I will say the gameplay is noticeably different between bard and machinist. I dislike machinist very much but it was obviously designed with gauss barrel in mind (regardless of my feelings on the mechanic) whereas wanderers minuet doesn't feel like it really belongs on bard.

This: when I levelled MCH I actually didn't feel that much annoyed with the casting time, since that the combo is an instant cast and overall feels more fleshed out, much better planned and GB feels like a good addition, albeit an annoying one.

But yes I can't say the same about the bard: some skills are instant now but I just felt it more clunky and less fluid. My guess is that they really added at the last moment so that BRD and MCH weren't too different, because I think they were afraid that the MCH wasn't going to take off due to the casting time in comparison to BRD's free movement. That or they just had no idea.

[Jamillion]

Its pretty much like if they'd given warriors sword oath at 52 instead of their own unique stance. The classes would play different but its still bullshit laziness.

Hey everyone else gets their own stance but not bards and mechs, you guys gotta share.

I just pictured using sword oath on my warrior and fighting with an axe in my hands and a sword in my teeth. Thank you for that

[MiniPrinny]

Its pretty much like if they'd given warriors sword oath at 52 instead of their own unique stance. The classes would play different but its still bullshit laziness.

Hey everyone else gets their own stance but not bards and mechs, you guys gotta share.

Yeah, while this wasn't true at Heavensward's release, Paladins and Dark Knights no longer share a stance. Grit is rightfully weaker than Shield Oath, since Grit is -20% damage to Shield Oath's -15%. This really has made every Job but Bard and Machinist have different stances mechanically.

Yeah, I do believe that many other jobs abilities were not very well thought out and/or rushed. It feels like some of the new abilities felt like filler ... that they needed an ability for the sake of having 5 per job and I think that it shows. Granted, some jobs (like SMN and WHM) were improved. But the rest were just, eh.

This was true back in 2.0 as well, just look at Scholar and Paladin's leveling list. And why, after Ninja was released, they didn't give Arcanist an actual heal worth having on a damage dealer, like Second Wind, and made Physick into something Scholar got at 30. Just crazy that we haven't gotten some revisions by this point.

Its easier to balance when the classes play very similar, this is one of the reasons why MMORPG these days have carbon copy of classes..

This is a bit of an interesting thought. Similarity while it can be useful for balancing, also isn't in my experience, the best option, especially in games that will eventually have who knows how many. FFXI ended with 22, FFXIV could reach or eclipse that number, or not. In cases like this, its often better to actually make classes radically different for identifiable mechanics, like how Machinist has pseudo-combos, how Monk can mix and match their combos, and Dragoon's randomized fourth combo. Likewise, it's important to make classes have different things they bring to the party, you can't compare Rage of Halone to Delirium for example, they both have greatly differing effects and uses, incomparable effects and abilities like these are healthy for a game, because the more you have, the more combinations you can make to find balance for even the weakest Jobs mathematically.

[SendohJin]

because they are too lazy to think of other ways to balance the jobs.

[myahele]

Yeah, I do believe that many other jobs abilities were not very well thought out and/or rushed. It feels like some of the new abilities felt like filler ... that they needed an ability for the sake of having 5 per job and I think that it shows. Granted, some jobs (like SMN and WHM) were improved. But the rest were just, eh.

And I agree that BRD/MCH do feel quite similar to each other, especially if you don't get procs as a mch

[Korbash]

I like WM for my bard. One reason I prefer playing range classes over melee is that I prefer being in the far back and not move. I leveled up BLM, then SMN, so I'm already used to not moving, and adding WM simply add more damage to bard, while it's not as limiting in movement as BLM and SMN.

[MugenMugetsu]

How much running around do you want to do as Brd? I feel that WM was an added bonus and I enjoy playing as Brd. I have no problem standing still to use abilities and if I need to fire off some shots on the move I have plenty of options available so that I can continue to DPS even though I'm moving with Wanderer's Minuet on.

Straight Shot to refresh straighter shot, Bloodletter, Blunt Arrow, Feint, Sidewinder, Flaming Arrow, and Rain of Death. (as far as abilities that I actually use on the move are concerned)