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  1. #1
    Player
    Elky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    126
    Character
    Elk Macha
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60

    Question, why does Bard and Machinist share the same core mechanic?

    I just find it weird that a new job is released and gets a mechanic, that is also given to another ranged physical dps class they both get the skill at the same level.
    So the question is, why give Bard wanderer's minuet? You could've kept that mechanic exclusive to Machinist, but you decided to give it to Bard as well. Does anybody know if there is logic behind this? I feel like both lose their uniqueness due to their similarities in skills and how they are played.
    (13)

  2. #2
    Player
    WinterLuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doma
    Posts
    1,377
    Character
    Indira Light
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 69
    I find they play completely differently regardless of Minuet.
    (7)

  3. #3
    Player
    Elky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    126
    Character
    Elk Macha
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by WinterLuna View Post
    I find they play completely differently regardless of Minuet.
    "core mechanic"
    (11)

  4. #4
    Player
    WinterLuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doma
    Posts
    1,377
    Character
    Indira Light
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 69
    Quote Originally Posted by Elky View Post
    "core mechanic"
    I know what core mechanic means, I'm just not sure why you have a problem with it. You said "they lose their uniqueness due to their similarities in how they are played" but I find they play differently, cast bar or not.
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    ExiaQuanta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    328
    Character
    Reimi Namikaze
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 80
    No one knows why SE decided to approach both job this way but many have wondered and guess and by far some have guessed that its so that neither job gets "alienated" or so that one is not "more preferred" than the other. As of right now both job interchangeable in a raid setting as they both offer almost the same thing but varies depending on your groups composition and preferences
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Velthice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    545
    Character
    Ozzie Nyandias
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Probably for the same reason melee classes all have combos, tanks all have tank and damage stances, etc...
    (6)

  7. #7
    Player
    Moomba33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    985
    Character
    Eva Gamirdren
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 100
    I really feel like SE didn't care about Bard this expansion. Little things like WM being almost the same as GB and arguably being a DPS loss when first implemented and WP being almost unusable due to it's long cast time made me think they just slapped it together at the last minute.

    It feels a lot better now than it did at the beginning of the expansion but part of me still thinks they designed the mechanic for MCH then pasted it onto BRD so people wouldn't choose BRD over MCH just to avoid cast times.
    (9)

  8. #8
    Player
    Ashkendor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    4,659
    Character
    Ashkendor Zahirr
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Moomba33 View Post
    I really feel like SE didn't care about Bard this expansion. Little things like WM being almost the same as GB and arguably being a DPS loss when first implemented and WP being almost unusable due to it's long cast time made me think they just slapped it together at the last minute.

    It feels a lot better now than it did at the beginning of the expansion but part of me still thinks they designed the mechanic for MCH then pasted it onto BRD so people wouldn't choose BRD over MCH just to avoid cast times.
    You're acting like other classes haven't received significant adjustments though. BLMs Astral Fire and Thundercloud were adjusted, MNKs GL3 was adjusted, PLD received potency boosts and other changes, DRG received potency boosts, AST received massive adjustments to potencies and some of their core mechanics, SMN received a potency boost, TP costs were adjusted across several classes... you can't really say that since Wanderer's Minuet had to be adjusted that BRD is somehow the red-headed stepchild here because many jobs have needed tweaking. I mean, AST was considered basically unplayable in endgame upon release. PLD was considered all but unplayable until we started overgearing Gordias Savage because of the difference in DPS between a PLD and any other tank. Part of introducing new classes and new skills is balancing them through play, and the kind of numbers you need to do that can only be generated by many players over time. Game balance isn't something that just happens; it's an ongoing process.

    I dunno, I don't find that WM feels "pasted on" but I'm not a bard main either so take that as you will. I think MCH is in a better place overall for various reasons, but BRD isn't bad off at all. Maybe there will be further adjustments? Who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morzy View Post
    MNK does not use combos. One thing i dislike about NIN n DRG.
    Uh... what? Monk uses pretty rigidly enforced combos. o.O
    (2)
    Last edited by Ashkendor; 04-30-2016 at 06:59 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Moomba33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    985
    Character
    Eva Gamirdren
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkendor View Post
    You're acting like other classes haven't received significant adjustments though. BLMs Astral Fire and Thundercloud were adjusted, MNKs GL3 was adjusted, PLD received potency boosts and other changes, DRG received potency boosts, AST received massive adjustments to potencies and some of their core mechanics, SMN received a potency boost, TP costs were adjusted across several classes... you can't really say that since Wanderer's Minuet had to be adjusted that BRD is somehow the red-headed stepchild here because many jobs have needed tweaking. I mean, AST was considered basically unplayable in endgame upon release. PLD was considered all but unplayable until we started overgearing Gordias Savage because of the difference in DPS between a PLD and any other tank. Part of introducing new classes and new skills is balancing them through play, and the kind of numbers you need to do that can only be generated by many players over time. Game balance isn't something that just happens; it's an ongoing process.

    I dunno, I don't find that WM feels "pasted on" but I'm not a bard main either so take that as you will. I think MCH is in a better place overall for various reasons, but BRD isn't bad off at all. Maybe there will be further adjustments? Who knows.
    Oh for sure, SE has had to adjust lots of jobs.
    But WM in particular feels like a lazy paste job to me. Especially with how terrible the animations were when it was introduced, how it clashes with the Bloodletter proc system, and how badly it slowed down the job in general by causing double weaving to clip your next GCD.
    As far as I'm concerned with Heavensward they didn't build on the Bard playstyle so much as they tried to make it like MCH.
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player
    Miah_Dakwhil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Miah Dakwhil
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Moomba33 View Post
    But WM in particular feels like a lazy paste job to me. Especially with how terrible the animations were when it was introduced, how it clashes with the Bloodletter proc system, and how badly it slowed down the job in general by causing double weaving to clip your next GCD.
    As far as I'm concerned with Heavensward they didn't build on the Bard playstyle so much as they tried to make it like MCH.
    I do feel like it was a paste job.. notice in the official benchmark trailer here at 7:02, you see the bard running behind the scholar and then letting off an Emphiral Arrow without the WM build-up. https://youtu.be/RGOIF_7vuLw?t=7m1s Somewhere along the dev process, and pretty late, they decided that for "balancing reasons" that bard needed to be a stick in the mud caster. I think it was as said earlier, that is was because they aren't able to think of good ways to deal with a mobile DPS, i.e. lazy way out.
    (1)

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