question how far is to far

[Laerune]

I find it amusing because this is the first MMO I have played where people complain they can't wear some female gear on males. Guess it's just the type of player base this game has. I spoke to some of my fc members about this and we came to agreement where if you want female looking gear just play female. Honestly in my personal opinion I see this as a waste of development time. Comparing this to raiding is just silly. Yes raiding is done by a minority i can say for sure a much larger amount people care about raiding than wearing female clothes on a male character. They can see the number of people doing raids and they can say we can make this because for the amount of people doing it this won't be a waste of development time.

In this case it just feels like a very small and when i say small i mean tiny part of the player base is just being very loud about it and it just comes across as quite a few. This just my opinion anyway and im not a fan of what they are doing. I won't say not to do it its their choice. I can already seeing it ending where they add it people wear it to be a special snowflake for a bit and then change back to their old glamour always happens then they realize they didn't really need it.

This is probably the first mmorpg where you see players complaining, because alot of mmorpg give the players the option to wear female outfits. World of Warcraft a 2004 mmorpg, has no male/female slot, all the outfits is for everyone, so males can wear female outfits. The same can be said for majority of F2P mmorpgs. Elder Scrolls Online has no genderlock aswell, I have often seen male wear dresses, because they can, heck even Blade and Soul which was released in the west this year gives males the option to wear sexy female outfits.

So I would not be suprised if people were not complaining on other mmorpgs, because why complain, if you already have the option to crossdress?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Hahaha, Eul

So your problem is ultimately males appearing feminine?

[16bitBounty]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

[Noxifer]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

No, the phrase should be, "If you want to play a woman, play a woman." Me, and others, play a male character because we prefer the looks (and/or voices) of them. That doesn't (and shouldn't!) prevent us from appreciating some of the currently female-only outfits. And it certainly doesn't/shouldn't prevent us from feeling slighted due to all the female/unisex glamour outfit pairs. Not when the entire idea behind gender selection from Yoshi's side has been "the gender of your character should make no difference when playing the game" (an early statement I read during ARR beta regarding male and female characters having the same starting stats).

Yes, brassieres are intended to support the female bust. (Bustier is merely a term coined for non-boned overbust corsets, afaik, and corsets exist for both genders.) And... apart from maybe, potentially, the fluffiest male roegadyn possible, no male characters have man-boobs. So where female characters get bras, male characters get naked chest. (Or chestguards or heartguards, in case of armour.)

Fishnet stockings are... for people with shaved legs. IMO. (On an amusing note, I heard that most legs advertising stockings/pantyhose, where you can't see the whole person... are male legs ^^; )

Panties... Yes, I'll agree that the word is associated with female underwear. But there is male underwear that resembles "panties" closely enough to make the distinction a matter of semantics. Same as how women have boxer shorts, despite those originally being male-only underwear (irl). I don't think there are any items in game that are called "panties" (if there are, please enlighten me), so it doesn't matter anyway.

I don't think (and I doubt there are that many who think so) that if SE decides to make, say, the bunny chest/legs/feet unisex that they're going to make them identical in appearance when male characters wear them. Just look at the soldiery caster legs. They're fishnets for female characters, weird tights for male characters. In fact, many of us have argued that a perfectly reasonable male equivalent would be to take inspiration from the Chippendale dancing group:


Similar sexually teasing image for women people attracted to the male body as the playboy bunny has for people attracted to the female body. Make the "bustier" a simple collar+bowtie, and while there already are several trousers that would suit to pair with it, I personally would be okay with another pair of almost-identical trousers to complete the set. Gloves and bunny ears could be kept as-is.
(I disagree with the one suggesting that the collar+bowtie should be a neck item -- we already have those in the Moogle ribbons and later recolors, and the main issue with those is that accessories can't be dyed. If it's kept as a chestpiece, you'd be able to dye it into the colour you want.)

[Eul]

snip

I'm hoping they give just bowtie for bunny sets for males. /pray

[16bitBounty]

Snip

I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.

[Neophyte]

Too far?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

You're assuming the male version of the bunny outfit would look exactly like the female version. That's a silly assumption to make. Consider something like Kirimu coat. It has a bare chest shown for males and a modesty protecting bra for females who wear it. I'd imagine the male bunny outfit would be similarly altered. Would you have less issue if the male bunny outfit had a chest similar to the couerl talisman (a bare chest with say a chippendales style collar), some chippendale style cuffs for the wrists and some full length slacks? But even if it wasn't altered. How is that much different from a male character dyeing a subligar pink and wearing that with some other silly hat like one of the moogle hats?

And not for nothing... who decides what clothing is exclusive to what gender? Once upon a time high healed shoes were the exclusive province of male fashion, only later being adopted by women. Deciding who can wear what based on some preconceived notion of what is or isn't male or female clothing is silly. Let people wear what they want. You aren't forced to wear it and the number of people you'll see wearing it should be so infinitesimally small you'll almost never see any after the initial craze of people who wear it for the novelty at release wears off. Of course anyone on your server who has read this topic may well wear it around you just to spite you he he.

[Noxifer]

I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.

The main argument (AFAIK) has always been, "It's unfair that they keep releasing female/unisex sets. Give our male characters the same rights D:" -- for some, they express that as "make everything unisex", others express it as "give us more male-only sets", and yet others express it as "I don't care which, just give us the same amount of gearsets, with equal thought behind them". I'm sure there are people (who are arguing for gearset equality, mind you) who are saying things in other ways, but those are the three main sentiments I've seen.
For me, it's the third of those. Sure, there are female-only gearsets that I'd love to wear as-is, but I'm also realistic enough to understand that they wouldn't be converted as-is to the male body without at least some modifications -- similar to how female characters get a bra beneath the Thavnairian vest when male characters don't. And considering some other gear pieces that have different appearances depending on the gender of the character wearing it (Coatees, Eerie Tights, Evenstar Tights, NIN AF gear, DRG AF gear...) the difference can be more or less drastic.

For me, it's more important that the "image" of the gearset remains than the actual appearance. As it is, most of the female-only gearsets emphasize a specific stereotypical aspect/expression. With Spring Dress, it was 'lady' -- the male version there would be 'gentleman', not 'sailor', IMO. (No, not the 'lady' that's the equivalent of 'lord'.) With the Bunny sets, it's sexuality -- male sexuality is expressed differently than female sexuality. With the Thavnairian set, it's again sexuality, but this time with a fairytale Middle Eastern flair. Say 'harem girl'. The male equivalent would be 'harem boy' IMO, especially when the 'Aladdin' equivalent of 'Jasmine' was made unisex.
Not sure if I'm expressing things clearly enough ^^;

Edit: And while I'm mentioning the Thavnairian set, I'd love a vest without the hip shawl D: My childbearing hips/thighs are wide enough as it is!

[MiniPrinny]

-snip-

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this. This post is quite apparently here to just incite others, but sure, I'll take the bait, just because I want to say one thing off the bat, but I'll save it for the end.

First of all, I realize that this is likely a horrifying realization for you, but there are plenty of straight women and gay men who would love to see some of the beefcakes of Eorzea walking around with bunny ears and revealing outfit on. Because our characters are all rather attractive at least in body structure, what you do to your character's face isn't my business.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're trying to say with your second point, I'm guessing its something about the various expressions of gender in our own species? Once again, gender is a dubious term and one that we have mostly made up. Gender expression is more about society's rules as a whole than a personal level. So if a straight or gay male character wants to walk around flaunting their sexual attributes, we should let them. Eorzea is a realm of equality, now, while some outfits shouldn't be worn by men, for example a wedding gown (they're just not made for men, sorry boys), some of the other clothing should be, like the Thavnairian Bustier (perhaps a change in name is due?) or the Bunny sets.

Tertiary, SquareEnix is a company that favors aesthetics, not only that, you needn't look far to see examples of men in the series wearing feminine clothing or having feminine features that look fantastic. Kuja, Cecil Harvey, and Ramza Beoulve are all great examples of this. So no, I don't think the clothing will look bad on men, in some cases it might look better.

Anyway... the last thing I have to say,