question how far is to far

[KrenianKandos]

This...has been one of those things I've been agonizing over myself.

While I am a liberal thinker and in RL, you're allowed to do whatever you want, personally, when I see a man (That you can really just point out and say "Yeah, that's a guy") in a dress or something feminine, or a woman in something masculine (and yet still has very feminine features), it bothers me personally. Do I voice it? No, not really; everyone has the right to do whatever the heck they want to do with their lives. But it doesn't remove the fact that I don't feel comfortable nor is it a sight for my eyes. But that's my own personal opinion.

This is further heightened in a fantasy genre RPG. While I understand the desire from some of the LGBT and other individuals that want the ability to have some of the dresses and other items that are female only, or some of the females wanting the male counterparts, to me, it completely destroys my immersion. Now, you'll say "Well, in a game where they have a full blown chocobo suit or swimwear that you can glamour onto your gear, your immersion isn't going to stand much of a chance". While true, most of the stuff is based on the game so I can tolerate it (only a bit more. To me, the silly stuff really breaks the environment and I like to have my fantasy genre to be as immersive as possible). So to me, it makes no sense whatsoever when I see a tank in a bikini or in a chocobo/moogle suit, while somewhat funny when it does happen.

But, I completely understand the desire or the want. I would rather they give each sex a glamour that is similar to what they release the other side so that both sides feel like they are getting something. But the cross between some males wearing female gear and some females wearing male gear, I'm not keen on.

NOW! I will say this: Some of the female armor sexualizes characters, no doubt about that. They should have one that is full armor, and one that is half armor/sexualized. Allow both choices. Or, make sure that when you do this, you don't do it all the time. I can completely understand female players being completely disgruntled every time they see an armor set on a female character and it covers everything except, you know, the ABSOLUTE CRITICAL PARTS of a body. The Dragoon one is utterly stupid on a functionality level because, simply put, you've got such a huge opening. While I understand Dragoons are nimble, how is it that the female dragoon has that huge opening and the male ones don't and yet the males can still do all the Dragoon skills?

I think the sexualization of the female body is still being done to this day. And I can applaud the steps that some gamers have taken to include our female gendered colleges and take their side in some cases. To me, I can also understand that some men LIKE to see their women in a sexualized manner. While the debate between it being right or wrong can go on for years, the fact is that it's simply a common male view.

TL;DR: I don't agree with crossdressing, because on a personal view, I don't like it, because it simply breaks my immersion in the game. I'm also not afraid to speak my opinion because this is, in the end, a forum where I can state my opinion. But on that note, I also don't like the fact the game has silly stuff that can be glamoured over proper sets because it's "funny" or "cute". The visual team needs to start thinking about adding both sexes when they add items, and they need to take in account that they need to meet the same standards: If you add something sexy for females, add something sexy that females would like on males. Equality is something that should always be striven for. Finally, we have made strides on sexualizing female anatomy but we still have a long way to go before we can safely say that both sexes are being treated fairly.

From what I can see, S-E is looking towards removing some items and making it unisex. While I don't personally like that choice, it is their game and I will not say a word about it if I see it, but personally, it won't sit well with me.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all" - any mother figure.

[Noxifer]

TL;DR: I don't agree with crossdressing
[...]
From what I can see, S-E is looking towards removing some items and making it unisex. While I don't personally like that choice, it is their game and I will not say a word about it if I see it, but personally, it won't sit well with me.

The problem is that most of the time, female characters are perfectly allowed to crossdress (since many of the "male-only" items are, in fact, unisex). Male characters aren't.

IRL, women are allowed to crossdress (trousers, suits/tuxes, masculine flannel shirts) without anyone opposing it, other than maybe people assuming that for places requiring 'formal wear', women must wear high heels and dresses. Men aren't without people questioning their sexuality, gender identity or beating them up for assumptions regarding those. (Yes, there are rare cases when men can "get away" with it, if they're fortunate to live in a city where people generally are more tolerant. It'll still cause quite a few raised eyebrows and comments. I tend to wear a long skirt at home, because it's comfortable and it's more socially accepted than wrapping a duvet cover around my waist because it's clothes. Went to the shop once during the summer without switching to trousers, crossed paths with a small group of people in their early twenties or late teens and heard semi-loud comments to the point of "people should really make up their minds (about gender)" -- probably because I'm also long-haired... with a beard. Glanced at the group. Three of them were short-haired women with jeans. Yeahhh... people should really make up their minds, no? *amused*)

Anyway, I get side-tracked. The point is that it should be fair for all players of this game. When gearsets are female/unisex, that's not fair. If they're female/male, that's fair. If they're unisex/unisex, that's fair. I for one am glad that SE are looking at levelling out the already-existing unevenness in addition to evening out the release pattern for current patches. Whether they do that by making the gearset pairs into unisex/unisex or female/unisex/male (by introducing new male-only gearsets to match the themes of previously released ones), it's pretty much the same to me.

And while I did make the comparison with IRL also allowing more freedom when it comes to clothes, the fact of the matter is that in Eorzea gender equality isn't really a struggle, is it? I mean, we know they can change quest text based on character gender, because not only pronouns get different, but we're addressed slightly differently in some texts depending on our gender. If text boxes started questioning our life choices of becoming the warrior of light if we happened to be playing a female character, or if female NPCs stopped being guards or other "dangerous" jobs because it wasn't "responsible" of them... then it might be fair to assume social rules when it comes to clothes may be similar.

[KrenianKandos]

The problem is that most of the time, female characters are perfectly allowed to crossdress (since many of the "male-only" items are, in fact, unisex). Male characters aren't.

IRL, women are allowed to crossdress (trousers, suits/tuxes, masculine flannel shirts) without anyone opposing it, other than maybe people assuming that for places requiring 'formal wear', women must wear high heels and dresses. Men aren't without people questioning their sexuality, gender identity or beating them up for assumptions regarding those. (Yes, there are rare cases when men can "get away" with it, if they're fortunate to live in a city where people generally are more tolerant. It'll still cause quite a few raised eyebrows and comments. I tend to wear a long skirt at home, because it's comfortable and it's more socially accepted than wrapping a duvet cover around my waist because it's clothes. Went to the shop once during the summer without switching to trousers, crossed paths with a small group of people in their early twenties or late teens and heard semi-loud comments to the point of "people should really make up their minds (about gender)" -- probably because I'm also long-haired... with a beard. Glanced at the group. Three of them were short-haired women with jeans. Yeahhh... people should really make up their minds, no? *amused*)

Anyway, I get side-tracked. The point is that it should be fair for all players of this game. When gearsets are female/unisex, that's not fair. If they're female/male, that's fair. If they're unisex/unisex, that's fair. I for one am glad that SE are looking at levelling out the already-existing unevenness in addition to evening out the release pattern for current patches. Whether they do that by making the gearset pairs into unisex/unisex or female/unisex/male (by introducing new male-only gearsets to match the themes of previously released ones), it's pretty much the same to me.

And while I did make the comparison with IRL also allowing more freedom when it comes to clothes, the fact of the matter is that in Eorzea gender equality isn't really a struggle, is it? I mean, we know they can change quest text based on character gender, because not only pronouns get different, but we're addressed slightly differently in some texts depending on our gender. If text boxes started questioning our life choices of becoming the warrior of light if we happened to be playing a female character, or if female NPCs stopped being guards or other "dangerous" jobs because it wasn't "responsible" of them... then it might be fair to assume social rules when it comes to clothes may be similar.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I said I wouldn't really say a word about it ingame or IRL, but inside, I'd be perturbed by it. There's an equality factor that I am for, but in my mind, it doesn't jive. Not sure how else to explain it.

[AnduinLynn]

Everyone has their own style and there should be room for everyone to express that style, and that is a good thing.
The answer is: you can ever go too far. To open up as many costumes to as many people who want to wear them allows for diversity, and diversity is a good thing in an MMO.

[pikster]

Am I the only one who thinks bunny ears and silly gimmick clothing should never have been in the game in the first place?

Running a dungeon with a Roe wearing leopard skin trunks and bunny ears is something that would really wreck the immersion into the game for me. The current state of it before making things available both sides is too much IMO...

[Laerune]

Am I the only one who thinks bunny ears and silly gimmick clothing should never have been in the game in the first place?

Running a dungeon with a Roe wearing leopard skin trunks and bunny ears is something that would really wreck the immersion into the game for me. The current state of it before making things available both sides is too much IMO...

But its here already and only one side of the playerbase has the option to wear those type of outfits. SE will not remove them, since they spend time and money it and players are fond of them. So the only logical solution is to even the playing field and allow the other half to enjoy those type of outfits.

Here are some examples on how the bunny outfit could work on males.






But SE has said that making new outfits takes to much time and effort (yet they made female ones....), so we have no choice, but to ask for the female outfits.

[pikster]

But its here already and only one side of the playerbase has the option to wear those type of outfits. SE will not remove them, since they spend time and money it and players are fond of them. So the only logical solution is to even the playing field and allow the other half to enjoy those type of outfits.

Im all for opening it up for both genders, hell, if we are going to throw realism and lore to the wind we might as well do it all the way! But tbf, thats not my morals speaking or an overwhelming desire for equality... Its more of a "meh" this really shouldn't be an issue.

Still, if all players could not go to a dungeon dressed as a bunny i'd really appreciate it.

[16bitBounty]

the problem with the rabbit suit is it's not a rabbit suit. It's a bustier, panties with fishnet stockings and bunny ears. I have no qualms with the bunny ears being made gender neutral.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

the problem with the rabbit suit is it's not a rabbit suit. It's a bustier, panties with fishnet stockings and bunny ears. I have no qualms with the bunny ears being made gender neutral.

Why is that a "problem"?

We already have the coeurl briefs and talisman for guys. Would the male version of the bunny costume really be much different from that?

[16bitBounty]

Why is that a "problem"?

We already have the coeurl briefs and talisman for guys. Would the male version of the bunny costume really be much different from that?

Can't say I'm fond of the Jok swimsuits. Why does your ken doll need to be a flaming diva? This isn't real life, characters aren't born with gender confusion they're male or female and the eorzean style based on NPC's is pretty clear cut.