question how far is to far

[Noxifer]

I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.

The main argument (AFAIK) has always been, "It's unfair that they keep releasing female/unisex sets. Give our male characters the same rights D:" -- for some, they express that as "make everything unisex", others express it as "give us more male-only sets", and yet others express it as "I don't care which, just give us the same amount of gearsets, with equal thought behind them". I'm sure there are people (who are arguing for gearset equality, mind you) who are saying things in other ways, but those are the three main sentiments I've seen.
For me, it's the third of those. Sure, there are female-only gearsets that I'd love to wear as-is, but I'm also realistic enough to understand that they wouldn't be converted as-is to the male body without at least some modifications -- similar to how female characters get a bra beneath the Thavnairian vest when male characters don't. And considering some other gear pieces that have different appearances depending on the gender of the character wearing it (Coatees, Eerie Tights, Evenstar Tights, NIN AF gear, DRG AF gear...) the difference can be more or less drastic.

For me, it's more important that the "image" of the gearset remains than the actual appearance. As it is, most of the female-only gearsets emphasize a specific stereotypical aspect/expression. With Spring Dress, it was 'lady' -- the male version there would be 'gentleman', not 'sailor', IMO. (No, not the 'lady' that's the equivalent of 'lord'.) With the Bunny sets, it's sexuality -- male sexuality is expressed differently than female sexuality. With the Thavnairian set, it's again sexuality, but this time with a fairytale Middle Eastern flair. Say 'harem girl'. The male equivalent would be 'harem boy' IMO, especially when the 'Aladdin' equivalent of 'Jasmine' was made unisex.
Not sure if I'm expressing things clearly enough ^^;

Edit: And while I'm mentioning the Thavnairian set, I'd love a vest without the hip shawl D: My childbearing hips/thighs are wide enough as it is!

[Serilda]

How do people not realise we can already wear bikinis? Also, we can wear corsets in the game. They don't show up (waist slot) but we're still shown to be wearing a laced corset on the equip screen and I have never heard a complaint.

(I disagree with the one suggesting that the collar+bowtie should be a neck item -- we already have those in the Moogle ribbons and later recolors, and the main issue with those is that accessories can't be dyed. If it's kept as a chestpiece, you'd be able to dye it into the colour you want.)

I was not aware this was a deliberate restriction; in that case I completely agree with you! Coordination is very important.

[Neophyte]

Too far?

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

You're assuming the male version of the bunny outfit would look exactly like the female version. That's a silly assumption to make. Consider something like Kirimu coat. It has a bare chest shown for males and a modesty protecting bra for females who wear it. I'd imagine the male bunny outfit would be similarly altered. Would you have less issue if the male bunny outfit had a chest similar to the couerl talisman (a bare chest with say a chippendales style collar), some chippendale style cuffs for the wrists and some full length slacks? But even if it wasn't altered. How is that much different from a male character dyeing a subligar pink and wearing that with some other silly hat like one of the moogle hats?

And not for nothing... who decides what clothing is exclusive to what gender? Once upon a time high healed shoes were the exclusive province of male fashion, only later being adopted by women. Deciding who can wear what based on some preconceived notion of what is or isn't male or female clothing is silly. Let people wear what they want. You aren't forced to wear it and the number of people you'll see wearing it should be so infinitesimally small you'll almost never see any after the initial craze of people who wear it for the novelty at release wears off. Of course anyone on your server who has read this topic may well wear it around you just to spite you he he.

[Jpec07]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

Gender normative much?

[Theodric]

Gender normative much?

Not really. The vast majority of people subscribe to traditional gender norms. It's very much a vocal minority who are pushing for that to change - and rather than agreeing to a compromise they're pushing for everything to made accessible to everybody which in turn limits creativity and the pride that comes with being a specific race or gender.

[MiniPrinny]

-snip-

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this. This post is quite apparently here to just incite others, but sure, I'll take the bait, just because I want to say one thing off the bat, but I'll save it for the end.

First of all, I realize that this is likely a horrifying realization for you, but there are plenty of straight women and gay men who would love to see some of the beefcakes of Eorzea walking around with bunny ears and revealing outfit on. Because our characters are all rather attractive at least in body structure, what you do to your character's face isn't my business.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're trying to say with your second point, I'm guessing its something about the various expressions of gender in our own species? Once again, gender is a dubious term and one that we have mostly made up. Gender expression is more about society's rules as a whole than a personal level. So if a straight or gay male character wants to walk around flaunting their sexual attributes, we should let them. Eorzea is a realm of equality, now, while some outfits shouldn't be worn by men, for example a wedding gown (they're just not made for men, sorry boys), some of the other clothing should be, like the Thavnairian Bustier (perhaps a change in name is due?) or the Bunny sets.

Tertiary, SquareEnix is a company that favors aesthetics, not only that, you needn't look far to see examples of men in the series wearing feminine clothing or having feminine features that look fantastic. Kuja, Cecil Harvey, and Ramza Beoulve are all great examples of this. So no, I don't think the clothing will look bad on men, in some cases it might look better.

Anyway... the last thing I have to say,

[MrPresident]

I don't see the point in wasting time and resources on allowing male characters to wear bikinis either when there are bigger issues with the game. But people complaining about this kinda stuff is just the world today OP. Expect it to continue even after gender lock removed on most items.

[Noxifer]

wasting time and resources on allowing male characters to wear bikinis

I don't think anyone has ever argued regarding bikinis (apart from players of female characters complaining that they can't wear the male-only southern seas top, the one with the tattoos). Those are already paired up as female/male, which is extremely fair. It's the gearsets that are paired up as female/unisex that are not fair, and that's the situation that needs to be changed. And yes, it's fair to expect them to spend equal amounts of resources on both male and female characters. If they allot x money to develop a female outfit, and x money to develop a male outfit, and then decide to make the male outfit unisex, they've effectively spent 1.5x on female outfits and 0.5x on male outfits. In which case it wouldn't be entirely incorrect to expect them to spend another x money on a male-only outfit, or on figuring out how to make the female outfit unisex without making it look like a joke outfit.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I don't see the point in wasting time and resources on allowing male characters to wear bikinis either when there are bigger issues with the game. But people complaining about this kinda stuff is just the world today OP. Expect it to continue even after gender lock removed on most items.

As if the same people who handle making armor/clothing models are the same people who handle bug fixes, class/job design, or content creation...