question how far is to far

[Eul]

What ass? You mean that piece of cardboard rapped in a speedo?

Doesn't matter, ass still ass (And of course bubble butt is plus value).

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

^that's what I'm talking about.

Not a speedo

Actually yea it is... with a few extra straps, for sure, but it really is just a speedo. And what's wrong with it as it is? You're a male playing a female character... but the sight of a guy strutting around in a fancy speedo makes you uncomfortable and incites you to call him a "flaming diva". The fact that this bothers you just makes you seem really insecure to me.

[Laerune]

I find it amusing because this is the first MMO I have played where people complain they can't wear some female gear on males. Guess it's just the type of player base this game has. I spoke to some of my fc members about this and we came to agreement where if you want female looking gear just play female. Honestly in my personal opinion I see this as a waste of development time. Comparing this to raiding is just silly. Yes raiding is done by a minority i can say for sure a much larger amount people care about raiding than wearing female clothes on a male character. They can see the number of people doing raids and they can say we can make this because for the amount of people doing it this won't be a waste of development time.

In this case it just feels like a very small and when i say small i mean tiny part of the player base is just being very loud about it and it just comes across as quite a few. This just my opinion anyway and im not a fan of what they are doing. I won't say not to do it its their choice. I can already seeing it ending where they add it people wear it to be a special snowflake for a bit and then change back to their old glamour always happens then they realize they didn't really need it.

This is probably the first mmorpg where you see players complaining, because alot of mmorpg give the players the option to wear female outfits. World of Warcraft a 2004 mmorpg, has no male/female slot, all the outfits is for everyone, so males can wear female outfits. The same can be said for majority of F2P mmorpgs. Elder Scrolls Online has no genderlock aswell, I have often seen male wear dresses, because they can, heck even Blade and Soul which was released in the west this year gives males the option to wear sexy female outfits.

So I would not be suprised if people were not complaining on other mmorpgs, because why complain, if you already have the option to crossdress?

[16bitBounty]

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Hahaha, Eul

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Hahaha, Eul

So your problem is ultimately males appearing feminine?

[Ashkendor]

I find it amusing because this is the first MMO I have played where people complain they can't wear some female gear on males. Guess it's just the type of player base this game has. I spoke to some of my fc members about this and we came to agreement where if you want female looking gear just play female. Honestly in my personal opinion I see this as a waste of development time.

Funny, cause me and my FC were laughing about the fact that the first thing that happened with the Cid glamour is that there were several ladies complaining on the forums that it's male only. If you point out that Minfilia is female only, they go "of course it is, silly." The best part is, if you take your argument here and flip it around (if you want male looking gear, play a male character) suddenly people go all tumblr on your ass and start throwing around big concepts like feminism and sexism. Personally, I think any development time spent making the masculine counterparts to any given glamour set usable on female characters is wasted. If they're going to continue gender locking things, we shouldn't have female gear and unisex gear; we should have female gear and male gear.

Basically, the double standard is real.

Comparing this to raiding is just silly. Yes raiding is done by a minority i can say for sure a much larger amount people care about raiding than wearing female clothes on a male character. They can see the number of people doing raids and they can say we can make this because for the amount of people doing it this won't be a waste of development time.

If we're rating the importance of content simply based on the amount of people that participate in it, glamouring would be ahead of raiding by miles. Almost everyone glamours things, so the selection of glamours affects almost everyone. I know of very few people that don't glamour at all. Breaking it down into "guys that want to equip female gear" versus "everyone that participates in raiding" is a little misleading as you're comparing a pretty small subset against a whole. In any case, the argument isn't just about crossdressing. I know I for one am not in the 'crossdressing or riot' camp. I'm in the 'implement the same number of glamour options for males as females' camp. I'd like to see more masculine versions of some of the female gear implemented, basically.

In this case it just feels like a very small and when i say small i mean tiny part of the player base is just being very loud about it and it just comes across as quite a few. This just my opinion anyway and im not a fan of what they are doing. I won't say not to do it its their choice. I can already seeing it ending where they add it people wear it to be a special snowflake for a bit and then change back to their old glamour always happens then they realize they didn't really need it.

A lot of us aren't in the "crossdressing or riot" camp though. Me personally, I would prefer the "separate but equal" treatment. When we got the Thavnairian sets, the ladies got the bustier and the guys got that cool open vest... except girls got that too, and they even had to spend the extra time on it to add the bra because of the open vest. When we got the wedding sets, the ladies got the bridesmaid dress (which admittedly is kinda ugly) and the guys got the suit... except girls got that too. I'd rather see the female + unisex thing get pitched out the window than just see us able to equip every pretty dress on guys. I'd also rather see less feminine caster gear (cmon, the AST eso set was straight up putting a dude in a dress and so are many of the other healing/casting gear options out there) but I understand that some people like having more feminine options.

No, panties and fishnet stockings incite me to calling him a "flaming diva."

Not all of us want panties and fishnet stockings, though. I'd be all over a more masculine version of the bunny set for males.

[16bitBounty]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

[Noxifer]

No, males appearing in clothes for women is. If you want to wear clothes for women, play a woman. Bustiers are designed for women with their anatomy taken into account. Fishnet stockings are for women. Panties are for women.

No, the phrase should be, "If you want to play a woman, play a woman." Me, and others, play a male character because we prefer the looks (and/or voices) of them. That doesn't (and shouldn't!) prevent us from appreciating some of the currently female-only outfits. And it certainly doesn't/shouldn't prevent us from feeling slighted due to all the female/unisex glamour outfit pairs. Not when the entire idea behind gender selection from Yoshi's side has been "the gender of your character should make no difference when playing the game" (an early statement I read during ARR beta regarding male and female characters having the same starting stats).

Yes, brassieres are intended to support the female bust. (Bustier is merely a term coined for non-boned overbust corsets, afaik, and corsets exist for both genders.) And... apart from maybe, potentially, the fluffiest male roegadyn possible, no male characters have man-boobs. So where female characters get bras, male characters get naked chest. (Or chestguards or heartguards, in case of armour.)

Fishnet stockings are... for people with shaved legs. IMO. (On an amusing note, I heard that most legs advertising stockings/pantyhose, where you can't see the whole person... are male legs ^^; )

Panties... Yes, I'll agree that the word is associated with female underwear. But there is male underwear that resembles "panties" closely enough to make the distinction a matter of semantics. Same as how women have boxer shorts, despite those originally being male-only underwear (irl). I don't think there are any items in game that are called "panties" (if there are, please enlighten me), so it doesn't matter anyway.

I don't think (and I doubt there are that many who think so) that if SE decides to make, say, the bunny chest/legs/feet unisex that they're going to make them identical in appearance when male characters wear them. Just look at the soldiery caster legs. They're fishnets for female characters, weird tights for male characters. In fact, many of us have argued that a perfectly reasonable male equivalent would be to take inspiration from the Chippendale dancing group:


Similar sexually teasing image for women people attracted to the male body as the playboy bunny has for people attracted to the female body. Make the "bustier" a simple collar+bowtie, and while there already are several trousers that would suit to pair with it, I personally would be okay with another pair of almost-identical trousers to complete the set. Gloves and bunny ears could be kept as-is.
(I disagree with the one suggesting that the collar+bowtie should be a neck item -- we already have those in the Moogle ribbons and later recolors, and the main issue with those is that accessories can't be dyed. If it's kept as a chestpiece, you'd be able to dye it into the colour you want.)

[Eul]

snip

I'm hoping they give just bowtie for bunny sets for males. /pray

[16bitBounty]

Snip

I was under the impression that the argument was "we want to wear female clothes on our male characters or riot!" not "we want to have the female outfits designed to be worn for men too." I'd be totally cool with the chippendale outfit and some bunny ears in place of fishnet stockings, panties, and a bustier.