Skill Tree

[MerleSirlos]

Skill trees can be good, but on the right conditions, and I don't think FFXIV offers the right conditions for it.

There are, in my opinion, two important points that we need to consider when dealing with a skill tree system:

1) Do we have separate role oriented skill trees or not? If yes, can we make a build that allows us to mix them or not?
-If we have well defined skill trees and cannot mix them, then it ends up the same as having 3 different jobs that can use the same weapon. So just make new jobs and no need for skill trees with the system we have. However the current system defines the jobs by the weapons used. An option would be to base jobs only on job stones like SMN/SCH does.
-If we have one big skill tree with offensive, defensive and healing skills or well defined skill trees that we are free to pick from to mix like we want, then we need to take into consideration optimization and out of the norm builds. In a game where there is a good balance of PvP and PvE, having something different from the masses can be good, the element of surprise might help win a fight and have the flexibility to quickly react to surprise elements coming from the other players. In a heavily PvE game like FFXIV, this will not work. If you are not optimized for the role you are taking in the party, you are pretty much giving up your place to someone who can do better just because he has the better build. FFXIV has some PvP, but we have extra PvP abilities that act like a skill tree.

2) Are we allowed to change freely our skill tree build or not?
-If we cannot change our choices or need an item to change it, having separate jobs sounds like a better option for me (and it's back to first part of point 1: different jobs sharing the same weapon).
-If we can freely change, we will surely need to save them to be able to switch easily (like we do for gear sets). Problem is, that creates a lot of extra data. Our characters are already heavily loaded with data (classes level and attributes distribution, gear sets, hotbars setup, inventory and so on). It's not impossible but will require to give up on other type of data or wait for a more optimized system (since the dev. team said they were looking at optimizing item data to be able to increase inventory space)

So yeah, although skill trees can be fun, I highly doubt they will be useful in a game like FFXIV.

[Zephyrin]

I dont like skill trees.

Better use that pvp-skill-upgrade-system for pve-skills and everything is fine : )

I like the idea.

Doesn't matter. Community wouldn't accept it.

Theory crafters would calculate the "optimal" build for each class. Then all PFs would be like "Farm party, need WHM with X build" etc.


So no, you wouldn't be able to play how you want unless you were doing casual content.

that's exactly what will happen.

Also we can see the "Jobs system" like a different way to play : a tank, a healer or a dps. Dont forget you can play all Jobs on one character

[Radacci]

Snip.

I'd go for a skill tree, where you can mix, but for GLD you'd put the stronger def buffs at the end of the tree - so even if you go mostly offensive, you can't pick up the heavy tank skills, too; it's kind of the cross-class system, where you can add a few skills from other classes, to add variety to your class; with jobs it's more restricted because jobs are more role streamlined.


As you said they could add new jobs instead, but they would have to do what they did with AST/DRK/MCH - remove the use of base class - and it feels a bit pointless to add 3 different PLD for 3 different roles, when you could have 1 job do all 3, with a skill tree system. SCH/SMN could just be 2 different trees for example, instead of separate jobs; they share base class anyway - they kind of are already a partial skill tree system. Swapping between skill tree specs, shouldn't be a bigger hassle then swapping job stone, or redo your pvp points.
Also with 3 different jobs instead of skill trees, you'd need a different gear set for each job - it just ends up bloating your armory. Instead of having 3 different sets, you have 1.
Well sure, but people already try to remove people with low performance, so i don't think much would change. But you could decide to lower your damage a bit, to add more utility. DRG don't have much utility, except Litany (which is awesome) suppose with a skill tree system, you spend a little less points on offense build, to pick up battle litany, which would boost your entire pt dps, no one would complain about that.
For simplicity, they made it so MNK healing is based on str, for example, so even if they had a healer tree, it would use their normal str stat. So i think this would alleviate the problem with having full armory chest, and people demanding more slots.

Is this a Wow thread because that's what it sounds likes, ret pallys, shadow priest, and at the 1 point in time OP druids

yes and no, WoW is hardly the only game with skill trees.
we can take FF10 as an example, where you can make any char into any role, but they are still a bit different.
Or FF7 where you can do the same with materia.
or 13 where you can swap roles on the fly.