Can anyone give me some PLD tips?

[Februs]

Lemme just...

I understand what you're getting at here, but you're looking at a massive trade off for a tiny return. I was using a figure of speech when I was talking about "the math," but if we're going to get into the nitty-gritty of it, then I'll give you some rough napkin math to show you where I'm coming from.

The debuff is 10% for a duration of of 20 seconds, applied immediately upon application. The application of RoH takes 5 seconds. Going off of your example of a 40s encounter with roughly 1 auto attack every 2 seconds, that accounts for 20 auto attacks from a single mob over the course of the encounter (not including stuns, crits, direct attacks, unknown variables, etc). With a standard pull rotation of 1 Flash and 1 CoS, you're looking at a 2 second delay on your initial RoH, pushing it to 7 seconds. That accounts for 3 auto attacks that are un-mitigated on a single mob, followed by 17 auto-attacks that are mitigated. On the second mob, at an additional 5 seconds (12 in total), that works out to 15 mitigated attacks from the second mob. The third mob has the lowest return, at 17 -19 (if you throw in an extra Flash, for example) seconds. That works out to 11 mitigated auto attacks. Spread across all 3 targets, that's 42 mitigated physical attacks (again, not including direct attacks) out of a total of 60 (which can vary dramatically depending on the size of the pull and the type of enemies within it).

In terms of sheer volume, you're mitigating more than half of the auto-attacks directed at you by using RoH, not including any additional attacks that are on top of that rate. Compare that to shaving off "1.8 attacks!" or "3 attacks for 3 mobs!" Unless the damage caused by those 3 attacks exceeds the total mitigated amount of the immediate effect caused by RoH upon application, then the benefit to increasing your dps output is clearly outweighed by the thousands of hit points you saved just by applying RoH (which also increases your healer's dps time, if they are feeling inclined to be awesome). The only positive exchange here is speeding things along by an insignificant amount ("~3-4 seconds," as you said) for the sake of clearing the dungeon a whopping 1 minute faster than the average. I suppose, if you really have to pee that might be favourable ...

The point is, this is not a black and white equation. Is it doable? Sure. I've run entire dungeons in a very similar manner. There's even very few and far between times in which I'd say it's the favourable way to go, especially if you get that special Dps group who are so painfully slow that you start to face-plant your keyboard. However, that doesn't change the fact that we're still talking about dropping a widely underestimated amount of mitigation (literally thousands of hit points over the course of one instance) in favour of an abysmally tiny increase in dps ("300-400," as you said). It's certainly not something I'd recommend right off the bat to fresh Pld's who are asking for advice. I could get into further detail with GB and RA, but that's more napkin math than I'm willing to commit to, and it amounts to no more than peanuts in the bucket; so, to each their own with that one.

As for your boss rotation, that was admittedly a misunderstanding ... Though it was not caused by my reading comprehension being "complete garbage" so much as your inaccurate rhetoric and composition. You wrote, and I'm quoting here "with Shield Oath active, you should never ever need to hit RoH to maintain hate." Which, at first glance, indicates that you never use RoH at all, even in your opener (hence the words "never ever"). I think you can understand how someone would think that a statement like this is wildly misleading and flat out false, because it is. Proof of that is in your very next post you stated, "My opener is always FB>SB>RoH." That's quite the jump from "never ever" using it to "always" opening with it, but, regardless, a misunderstanding is a misunderstanding. Showing your opening has cleared it up.

As for Dkr's, that's a bit trickier. I don't remember the exact values that run behind their opener, but if I remember correctly a fully buffed C&S opener generates more enmity than a bonus applied to a Power Slash combo. They get a lot of additional hate from their oGCD's, so it's not abnormal to be able to maintain hate without the use of Power Slash while in Grit. Someone did a full breakdown of how it worked months ago, but I honestly don't remember which thread it was in ...

[winsock]

take SpookyGhost's advice for sure.

In addition, it might be useful to know:
* FoF impacts flash.
* before RoH, flash spamming generates quite a bit more emnity than the threat combo. (While you should need this on single targets, might be useful if you're struggling)

[Ragology]

take SpookyGhost's advice for sure.

In addition, it might be useful to know:
* FoF impacts flash.

I thought Flash scales with attack power and since Fight or Flight didn't raise attack power that it also didn't boost flash? (WAR's Berserk helps with flash though.)

[Stufoo]

I thought Flash scales with attack power and since Fight or Flight didn't raise attack power that it also didn't boost flash? (WAR's Berserk helps with flash though.)

Fight or Flight doesn't work on Flash because it specifically states it only increases physical damage. Flash is magical. Maim, Darkside, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, etc all work on Flash because they increase all damage.

It has nothing to do with scaling with AP, though obviously Berserk does work with Flash just like AP from any other source.

[Metalwrath]

First of all just want to point out that for holding threat as a tank you shouldn't compare other tanks to Dark.When Dark knight was being released SE knew the main player demographic for that job was gonna be people who never tanked in their life and would choose the job because it looked cool.Hence why Darks emnity is so rediculously broken.Hoping that gets nerfed in the near future.They made it a complicated class to master but designed for retards to be able to hold agro.
Like others have said Pld pre lvl 40 will be dificult to hold agro.One bit of advice i wil give especially in PLDS case.If some trash monster steals agro off you i generally stun the mob first before useing an agro combo to get it back.Reason why.The stun gives you the window to take back the mob emnity without the risk of the dps getting killed or stealing heals from you as tank.

[FallenWings]

First of all just want to point out that for holding threat as a tank you shouldn't compare other tanks to Dark.When Dark knight was being released SE knew the main player demographic for that job was gonna be people who never tanked in their life and would choose the job because it looked cool.Hence why Darks emnity is so rediculously broken.Hoping that gets nerfed in the near future.They made it a complicated class to master but designed for retards to be able to hold agro.
Like others have said Pld pre lvl 40 will be dificult to hold agro.One bit of advice i wil give especially in PLDS case.If some trash monster steals agro off you i generally stun the mob first before useing an agro combo to get it back.Reason why.The stun gives you the window to take back the mob emnity without the risk of the dps getting killed or stealing heals from you as tank.

You spelled WAR wrong.
DRK is by no means 'overpowered' when it comes to aggro. It's designed specifically as such that they burst hard with power slash because it is their most undersirable combo that does nothing but generate enmity and takes away from their class mechanic; MP Management.

@OP
PLD is going to suffer no matter what you do since they just a weaker AoE aggro generator. The upside is that it blinds mobs so PLD enjoys some benefits in being slightly tankier but that doesn't matter too much. Having no equivalent to Maim or Darkside to boost flash can really suck as well as ShO(their tanks stance) being at 40 for some god forsaken reason.

Follow the advice that have been said here and update your gear as best you can. Flash 2/3 times and rotate halone combo between mobs. Nothing else you can really do otherwise.

[Gameplayzero]

You spelled WAR wrong.
DRK is by no means 'overpowered' when it comes to aggro. It's designed specifically as such that they burst hard with power slash because it is their most undersirable combo that does nothing but generate enmity and takes away from their class mechanic; MP Management.

He is talking about dungeons i'm assuming rather than bosses. So powerslash is out of the equation since the other tanks enmity combos aren't the problem since.

I'm pretty sure they gave dark really great aggro abilities for the mp management aspect outside of powerslash. If they had to spam unleash constantly (possibly like flash) then dark arts would be harder to use (their unique mechanic). I don't know the exact enmity numbers for dark, but i'm pretty sure unleash is a better enmity generator than overpower. I might sound stupid but I'd have to look it up. Might be the exact same, but idk. Besides his delusional bantering he isn't wrong that darks mob aggro is stupid good.

edit: yup unleash generates more enmity WITHOUT berserk being up. Same with unmend. Powerslash without dark arts is the same as warrior. Paladin is .5 behind because of the strength debuff and higher enmity boost from tank stance. Dark's tank stance gives .5 more enmity boost in comparison to warrior.

[winsock]

I thought Flash scales with attack power and since Fight or Flight didn't raise attack power that it also didn't boost flash? (WAR's Berserk helps with flash though.)

I will double check this

[Yawnie]

Ahh thank you all for replying and for your advice

Guess it's just a matter of really paying attention to each mob and rotating my combos and flash

[Februs]

Ahh thank you all for replying and for your advice

Guess it's just a matter of really paying attention to each mob and rotating my combos and flash

It gets easier.

As you level and gain gear, you'll have more tools at your disposal to hold threat. Compared to Drk and War, Pld still has to pay the most attention to their threat levels than any other tank, but when you're maxed out and get to know the dungeons from tank perspective it will become second nature to you. Honestly, it's more a matter of experience than anything. Most seasoned Pld's could write you a book on different ways to hold enmity on Pld, but you'll fall into it all on your own the more you actually do it, especially if you actually like the job. That said, if you do have any specific questions don't hesitate to ask them. The forums are a strange place, but most people are generally happy to give pointers and help out when someone is honestly asking a question.