Request: Remove iLVL requirement for undersized party or pre-made groups

[Xavikon]

I would also note that the arbitrary iLVL requirements set forth by the DevTeam are absolutely NOT the minimum iLVL required to complete the instance. Examples include, but are not limited to Lucrezia and Coil. The iLVL req. set by the DF is i82 for T5, and i123 for T13. You can go over to Lucrezia's YouTube page and find where they completed this content with ~i55 and ~i90 gear respectively. That is nearly a 30 iLVL difference between Duty Finder arbitrary "requirements" and what is truly needed to complete content.

So please, before marking undergeared as defined by your own, or even the DevTeam's arbitrary opinion, realize that there are exceptionally skilled players out there, such a Lucrezia or Elysium and others, that enjoy the challenge. And while the lack of this feature does not hinder them, their success provides evidence that it is not necessary to burden others who are able to carry their friends with the need to buy higher iLVL gear when it is unnecessary.

[Reynhart]

So please, before marking undergeared as defined by your own, or even the DevTeam's arbitrary opinion, realize that there are exceptionally skilled players out there, such a Lucrezia or Elysium and others, that enjoy the challenge.

So change your gear once you're in the dungeon, ...you can already do that...

Seriously, if that's your motivation, you're making a fuss for nothing, since ilvl only applies to the Duty Finder, and that exceptionally skilled players like Lucrezia or Elysium have all the gear they need to meet the ilvl requirement way before the dungeons are even created...

By, the way, you can edit your post to bypass the 1000 characters limit.

[Xavikon]

So change your gear once you're in the dungeon, ...you can already do that...

Seriously, if that's your motivation, you're making a fuss for nothing, since ilvl only applies to the Duty Finder, and that exceptionally skilled players like Lucrezia or Elysium have all the gear they need to meet the ilvl requirement way before the dungeons are even created...

By, the way, you can edit your post to bypass the 1000 characters limit.

Thanks for the info regarding how to get around 1000 char limit. I don't post on the forums often, so this is helpful information.

I'm not trying to make a fuss, I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR. There does seem to be exceptional negative feedback to this idea, some legitimate, some unfounded. I just don't like seeing groundless arguments against something.

Additionally, as I mentioned, I am not looking for this feature for the exceptional players. I just encountered this issue the other night trying to bring new players through ancient Coil content and thought it seemed quite silly that I have to go buy/craft them i125 gear just to queue for a pre-made dungeon group that is 7/8 in i220/i230 gear.

Thanks~

[Lemuria]

I'm not trying to make a fuss, I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR. There does seem to be exceptional negative feedback to this idea, some legitimate, some unfounded. I just don't like seeing groundless arguments against something.

Game feature? Item levels were never a thing in the past because it wasn't possible to be nearly 100 item levels above a dungeon! Once the gear got too strong they added item level restrictions and requirements to keep the game balanced. This wasn't a "feature" as much as it was a lack of features. And undersized parties were not even possible until the release of Heavensward -- you always needed a FULL party to start any dungeon.

Sorry, but so far your entire argument seems horribly flawed and your only defense is convenience. You've chosen to ignore the obvious abuse that this system could get in favour of shamless promotion. Basically, you're trading game balance for convenience. You won't get anywhere if you just look at one side of the argument, so at least address concerns when you respond instead of burying your head in the sand.

Better gear does not prevent people from being carried in any way.

But it actually DOES! What stops a level 30 from joining a level 60 on a high level dungeon? Oh right, minimum level! What stops an undergeared monk joining on that Coil of Bahamut run? Oh wait! minimum item level! And you basically admitted in the same paragraph that you were forced to upgrade their gear to get in. Guess what? That's the whole point of the system!

Pretending it doesn't do anything doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

[Xavikon]

Game feature? Item levels were never a thing in the past because it wasn't possible to be nearly 100 item levels above a dungeon! Once the gear got too strong they added item level restrictions and requirements to keep the game balanced. This wasn't a "feature" as much as it was a lack of features. And undersized parties were not even possible until the release of Heavensward -- you always needed a FULL party to start any dungeon.

Sorry, but so far your entire argument seems horribly flawed and your only defense is convenience. You've chosen to ignore the obvious abuse that this system could get in favour of shamless promotion. Basically, you're trading game balance for convenience. You won't get anywhere if you just look at one side of the argument, so at least address concerns when you respond instead of burying your head in the sand.But it actually DOES! What stops a level 30 from joining a level 60 on a high level dungeon? Oh right, minimum level! What stops an undergeared monk joining on that Coil of Bahamut run? Oh wait! minimum item level! And you basically admitted in the same paragraph that you were forced to upgrade their gear to get in. Guess what? That's the whole point of the system!

Pretending it doesn't do anything doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.

A level 30 can't possibly get into a level 60 dungeon due the level requirement, it has nothing to do with the item level requirement.

Additionally, I think perhaps I phrased the comment about carrying in a manner that wasn't clear. Let me try again.

Scenario A) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four players queue at random and get in. Player Y enters with iLVL 230 gear, but presses 1 button and is semi-afk the whole time. The rest of the group is carrying that player.
Scenario B) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four friends queue up together, but player Z only has iLVL 180 gear. Player Z does his best rotation and works hard the whole dungeon. Clearly he doesn't contribute as much as the remaining three, but he does contribute and is carried but not in a necessarily negative way.

Both situations the person is being carried. Scenario A is what we all hate about the concept of "carrying", Scenario B involves "carrying" but I don't see anything wrong with Player Z who is trying, just undergeared and with friends who are willing to accept that handicap...

[Reynhart]

So first, you make this long post about how this feature would benefit people who just want a challenge, and now, it finally ends up as "I want to be able to carry people".
So, again, please, no, because it would allow high geared players to carry undergeared people.

Scenario B) A given dungeon requires iLVL 200 to enter, four friends queue up together, but player Z only has iLVL 180 gear. Player Z does his best rotation and works hard the whole dungeon. Clearly he doesn't contribute as much as the remaining three, but he does contribute and is carried but not in a necessarily negative way.

Considering that the only content that requires ilvl200+ are Midas and Seph EX, no, at 180, you don't contribute, you're just swinging your weapon around, and will be killed comes the first big AoE. And you don't learn a fight when you're dead for the most part.

Besides, if he's only 180, why don't his friends bring him to Gordias ? Why don't they kill Ravana together ? Why don't they hike a little in the void Ark ? Or do some expert roulette to buy i200 and i230 gear ?

[Xavikon]

So first, you make this long post about how this feature would benefit people who just want a challenge, and now, it finally ends up as "I want to be able to carry people".

Considering that the only content that requires ilvl200+ are Midas and Seph EX, no, at 180, you don't contribute, you're just swinging your weapon around, and will be killed comes the first big AoE. And you don't learn a fight when you're dead for the most part.

I never suggested that I wanted this for people who wanted a challenge. This feature never was required for overgeared players from challenging something at a lower iLVL. I gave examples to prove that the DF iLVL was not a strict requirement for completing the content.


Also, thank you for taking the most literal of examples, when what I gave was a hypothetical. Replace i200 with i80, or i90, or i140. It doesn't matter, you're lack of understanding a hypothetical scenario makes it impossible for me to convey the reason for this request.

[Reynhart]

I simply asked for a feature to return to the game that was previously existent in ARR.

It...wasn't.
You could enter coil without an ilvl requirement when it wasn't on the duty finder...and it's the same, now, for Alexander Savage.
Every duty in the DF has an ilvl requirement. But like I said, you can easily have enough gear to meet the requirement, then change it once you're Inside, providing you don't skip content.

Additionally, as I mentioned, I am not looking for this feature for the exceptional players. I just encountered this issue the other night trying to bring new players through ancient Coil content and thought it seemed quite silly that I have to go buy/craft them i125 gear just to queue for a pre-made dungeon group that is 7/8 in i220/i230 gear.

So, that's that, you carried people.

[WhiteArchmage]

I would also note that the arbitrary iLVL requirements set forth by the DevTeam are absolutely NOT the minimum iLVL required to complete the instance. Examples include, but are not limited to Lucrezia and Coil. The iLVL req. set by the DF is i82 for T5, and i123 for T13. You can go over to Lucrezia's YouTube page and find where they completed this content with ~i55 and ~i90 gear respectively. That is nearly a 30 iLVL difference between Duty Finder arbitrary "requirements" and what is truly needed to complete content.

Having just gone to Lucrezia's YouTube page I'm going to call BS or gross exaggeration here. Their t5 clear does use some i55 gear but the weapons are i70 (and weapons may be the most important gear) while they did t13 in i110 at least, not i90 as you say. You'll also notice those runs are very long and, dare I say it, almost hit enrage and everyone needs to be on point on DPS (as well as their cooldowns) so most raid groups wouldn't be able to clear it.

However, there are still way too many people who reach Steps of Faith and can't clear it because they've been carried through all content (and yes, I say STILL because the other day a friend was stuck in one run where they got Vishap to 50% by the time they got to last gate). People would just buy carries through t1-13 or Alexander Savage or carry their friends. And reaching the necessary ilvl isn't even hard, especially for new players who get a set of i90 gear alongside their job quest blues and free i110-100 gear on story quests, and that's not even getting into Ishgard. So no, removing min ilvl from duties is just laziness and very exploitable.

And, as said already, you can edit your post after posting it to get aroung the 1k limit. As I just did.

[Xavikon]

Having just gone to Lucrezia's YouTube page I'm going to call BS or gross exaggeration here. Their t5 clear does use some i55 gear but the weapons are i70 (and weapons may be the most important gear) while they did t13 in i110 at least, not i90 as you say. You'll also notice those runs are very long and, dare I say it, almost hit enrage and everyone needs to be on point on DPS (as well as their cooldowns) so most raid groups wouldn't be able to clear it.
However, there are still way too many people who reach Steps of Faith and can't clear it because they've been carried through all content (and yes, I say STILL because the other day a friend was stuck in one run where they got Vishap to 50% by the time they got to last gate). People would just buy carries through t1-13 or Alexander Savage or carry their friends. And reaching the necessary ilvl isn't even hard, especially for new players who get a set of i90 gear alongside their job quest blues and free i110-100 gear on story quests, and that's not even getting into Ishgard. So no, removing min ilvl from duties is just laziness and very exploitable.

And, as said already, you can edit your post after posting it to get aroung the 1k limit. As I just did.

I apologize, in my creation of the post I skipped over T9. T5 was done in i55~ gear. T9 was done in i90~ gear and T13 was in i110~ gear. The maximum available at the time the content was first released.

Better gear does not prevent people from being carried in any way. The free i110,i120 is not enough to reach the i123 requirement of T13. And the point is not about the difficulty of overcoming this barrier to entry. It is that is possibly an unnecessary one that could be removed with little ill-effect. It only took me ~5 minutes to go buy the gear necessary for our companion to get into T13, but since we are all i220,i230, and in a premade group of eight, I shouldn't have had to do that in the first place, IMHO.