What is "Sustained DPS"?

[Ghishlain]

Thanks for the feedback and responses everyone.

Pretty much discussion is boiling down to the, in my opinion, the "exact definition of sustained DPS" and I wanted to make sure I would use the context correctly for the game just to avoid future confusion.

I'll probably keep mentioning "sustained DPS" for myself just because I believe most players understand what that means in practical applications.

[Pells]

I'd define sustained dps as the damage you can maintain over an indefinite period of time. This would include both the burst periods where you're burning cooldowns, as well as the lull and maintenance periods where you're regaining MP/TP and waiting for the cooldowns to reset.

[Werhusky]

Considering its about healers... been doing SSS dummies on SCH and WHM.

WHM has extremely high burst (hence the dummy requires more damage to beat) but if you do SSS you will notice by the end on the 3 min time you will barely have any mana for any cast left. I managed to OOM at 3% and couldn't best dummy due to that while 10s left on one of em XD

SCH has that "sustained" DPS assuming it is the "longer DPS uptime" at the end of an SSS dummy my MP at at 80-98% full mana due to all the Energy Drains and Aetherflow.

This is basically the reason why people want SCH to DPS while the other heals, even tho WHM and AST have the burst... it just has the better manamanagement while doing said DPS and the fairy does the rest...

[JackFross]

I'd define sustained dps as the damage you can maintain over an indefinite period of time. This would include both the burst periods where you're burning cooldowns, as well as the lull and maintenance periods where you're regaining MP/TP and waiting for the cooldowns to reset.

B-But there's never a lull period where you're regaining TP/MP (unless you're a BLM/DRK where MP management is your gimmick). TP should be a constant drain from start to finish. If it's not, your DPS is suffering, hard. The burst regen from Invigorate every 2m doesn't really count as a period of regaining TP.

This is basically the reason why people want SCH to DPS while the other heals, even tho WHM and AST have the burst... it just has the better manamanagement while doing said DPS and the fairy does the rest...

It's less about Mana and more about utility. Healers are not DPS. They can do DPS, but they are not DPS. Their Job is healing, first and foremost. When a SCH is doing DPS, their Fairy picks up some of the slack. When the WHM is doing DPS, they're just not healing at all outside of maybe having HoTs flowing.

Fact is: WHM+Fairy is better raid heals in the majority of situations than SCH+Fairy, due to WHM's burst heal capabilities with Divine Seal, Presence of Mind, Assize, Med II, and Cure III. SCH has tools as well (Fey Illumination, Dissipation, Emergency Tactics, Whispering Dawn), but 2/4 of those are Fairy skills - and they're the two most powerful skills in that arsenal.


I didn't add to the discussion of Sustained DPS, because I feel it was quite sufficiently answered on the first page in the Burst v Sustained way.

[Pells]

B-But there's never a lull period where you're regaining TP/MP (unless you're a BLM/DRK where MP management is your gimmick). TP should be a constant drain from start to finish. If it's not, your DPS is suffering, hard. The burst regen from Invigorate every 2m doesn't really count as a period of regaining TP.

As far as sustained dps goes, there is no finish. That is what I mean by 'indefinite period'. If you are running out of resources, you obviously can't sustain that level of dps.

When you have an end point that you can plan to run out of juice (the boss dies), then you're really dealing with encounter dps. While this is the more useful kind to deal with, it's not what was asked to be defined by the OP.

[Morzy]

As far as sustained dps goes, there is no finish. That is what I mean by 'indefinite period'. If you are running out of resources, you obviously can't sustain that level of dps.

When you have an end point that you can plan to run out of juice (the boss dies), then you're really dealing with encounter dps. While this is the more useful kind to deal with, it's not what was asked to be defined by the OP.

Lol.. how technical can u get dude.

[CookieMonsta]

Lol.. how technical can u get dude.

check out the DRG thread

[Pells]

Lol.. how technical can u get dude.

When defining technical jargon, such as 'sustained dps'? As technical as I need to be.

[JackFross]

As far as sustained dps goes, there is no finish. That is what I mean by 'indefinite period'. If you are running out of resources, you obviously can't sustain that level of dps.

When you have an end point that you can plan to run out of juice (the boss dies), then you're really dealing with encounter dps. While this is the more useful kind to deal with, it's not what was asked to be defined by the OP.

I don't exactly know what in this argues against what I'm saying in my post. Your TP is a constant drain. The way you said it originally:

I'd define sustained dps as the damage you can maintain over an indefinite period of time. This would include both the burst periods where you're burning cooldowns, as well as the lull and maintenance periods where you're regaining MP/TP and waiting for the cooldowns to reset.

implies that you would stop attacking to regenerate resources which you call "lull and maintenance" periods - which flat out do not exist when discussing dps. You burn your resource until it's out, and then you deal with it until your next resource boost (Goad, Invigorate, Aetherflow, Shroud, etc) rolls around.

The way you explained it sounds like you don't understand how DPS works in this game, because you're talking about things that are just... non-existent? Unless you ARE talking about the points where your resources have dwindled to zero, in which case why are you here talking about DPS and referencing points that are literal non-issues in quite honestly every situation where such a point would matter?

When discussing "sustained DPS" - you can't consider it in a vacuum. You can't create some "ideal world" where these sorts of things matter, because if you discuss Job balance in a world like that, so far removed from the world we actually play in, you cannot draw ANY realistic conclusions about the Jobs in the contexts that matter. And the only conclusions that matter in a discussion of DPS are ones which can be applied to the game in realistic circumstances.

[Duuude007]

Most people I play with consider it the average damage output over the span of 3-5 minutes of attacking a single target, with no externally applied buffs or debuffs. Not just burst damage, but auto-attack, dots, and everything in between, added up. Food, pots and FC buffs are allowed.

TLDR: What is your solo dps average (over 5 minutes) against a lvl 60 sparring dummy?