SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[FinalWolf]

[Ragnarokl]

My only concern about a mage tank like people are describing here is how useful it is without that stat swaping stance, like can you turn it off or are you instantly dead if you do.
Also wouldn't a counter basesed tank be locked into the MT position.

[EdwinLi]

My only concern about a mage tank like people are describing here is how useful it is without that stat swaping stance, like can you turn it off or are you instantly dead if you do.
Also wouldn't a counter basesed tank be locked into the MT position.

There is also the concern with how will Countering work in max level and endgame fights as many boss/endgame fights does not give Tanks much time to stand still and wait to be attacked or else risk getting destoryed by a attack that cannot be blocked/avoided/countered and the entire party starts catching up with the Tank's Aggro.


SE will need to make the aggro amount gained from Counter skills to be decent enough to make up for the lost aggro for not attacking while waiting to be hit to use their counter skills along with taking into account the unavoidable attacks that Tanks can only survive through their short Invincible skill so that this Tank does not become the only Tank with multiple Invincible Skills through the use of their counter skills where Paladin, Dark Knight, and Warrior only have 1. Then there is the Magic and Physical base attacks they must take into consideration so they can make certain the Tank can Counter both Magic and Physical without causing the Tank job to outshine the current 3 other tansk being Paladin, Warrior, and Dark Knight. Then there is also the consideration of how the Magic and Physical attacks can be countered either by keeping all Counters affecting both or separate counters only working on the two types attacks separately. Both choices have their ups and downs being mostly balance issues as there is no possible way to determining the Attack type being used making Counter skills that work separately hard to use without using memory or a guide to tell them what attacks does what and if Counter affects both then people may start complaining that SAM Tank is too OP in his or her defense ability that it makes the other tanks unneeded unless players want to use them for fun.

There is a lot of issue SE must consider first before adding it into the game and sometime their choices are very questionable with one such example being how they changed Machinist's original planned mechanics to focus on using different weapon modifications into what it is now.

It is more than just what the Tank will bring to the game through positives, either short or long term, but also what kind of negatives they will bring as well. The negatives must always be considered when a new Job is released so the issues can be resolved first before release or else we get a large imbalance mess of new Jobs being too OP or UP.

[Xlantaa]

Whatever will be the new tank (if we get someone new) will be stuck on Fending Gear. They won't make a specific gear for a single new type of tank, because that will make things hard for loot. Now, if Red Mage/Blue mage uses the fending gear, won't be precisely the Red Mage/Blue mage people wants... Samurai in fending gear can pass (if the PLD can go with that weird Gordian/midan thing, he can go too), but, definitely, the Blue/Red mage not. And they won't add new gear for the old content. We got weapons for the old content on HW, but only weapons. The gear was shared with previous classes.

I don't think Square ENix will change their schemes.

[Shippuu]

Do people think Tank players are just born knowing they want to play tanks? Sometimes all it takes is an enticing tank class/job to get someone to try it and maybe they'll like it. I certainly didn't start my MMO days out playing as a tank, and I thought I'd hate the role until I tried it one day in another game and found I liked it. I know of many people who were career DPS or even healers who tried out DRK when it came out. These things are only good for the health of the game, as opposed to the likelihood of tank numbers going down if they get stuck with the same options for years on end or are given unoriginal/uninteresting new jobs.

You want to keep your tanking (and healing) population healthy in any MMO that relies on the trinity. Because without those roles there's no taking on content. Without them making duty queues pop many more players will become tired of the waiting and leave. The game needs tanks and healers.

[EdwinLi]

----

You know you're taking this discussion as if people do not want a new Tank Job in the game but this is about what Role SAM may have.

It is best not to assuming that if SAM does not become a Tank Job it means there will be no Tank Job released in 4.0.

[Shippuu]

You know you're taking this discussion as if people do not want a new Tank Job in the game but this is about what Role SAM may have.

It is best not to assuming that if SAM does not become a Tank Job it means there will be no Tank Job released in 4.0.

I'm taking this discussion as people are vying to take a very obvious tank selection that is both popular and highly requested and offering nothing but obscure and undesired jobs as replacement. Or taking jobs that are even farther away from what this game dictates as a tank and trying to force it into that role (i.e. Red Mage/Blue Mage).

Edit: As well as people continuously spouting nonsense that adding new and alluring tank jobs won't alter the tank population at all. I'm tired of seeing that completely untrue statement and the narrow mindedness that comes with the reality that if something isn't done to help swell tank population than it will indeed go down which is bad for everyone.

[EdwinLi]

I'm taking this discussion as people are vying to take a very obvious tank selection that is both popular and highly requested and offering nothing but obscure and undesired jobs as replacement. Or taking jobs that are even farther away from what this game dictates as a tank and trying to force it into that role (i.e. Red Mage/Blue Mage).

If that how you see thing then by what you said SAM is most likely the Last and Only option for a Tank Job and any other Job is not qualified to be a Tank Job.

However, if SE wants to continuing making Tank Jobs they will eventually need to go beyond what they have now. What you may consider obscure and undesirable may not have that effect once it has been implamented not to mention there are different opinions from different people so what may be considered obscure and undesirable may not be for another person. Those obscure and undesirable Tank Jobs may even become Tank Jobs desired beyond simply their appearance and Nostalgia senses.

What a Tank job should be is not for us to judge as we can only state opinions and what we state is not the opinions of others but only our own on what we believe. The only ones can determine what a Tank Job should be and can be is the ones who are developing them.

This is a discussion of opinions we make ourselves about what SAM may possibly be as the end result of the development team's choices and not facts about what will SAM be.

[Shippuu]

If that how you see thing then by what you said SAM is most likely the Last and Only option for a Tank Job and any other Job is not qualified to be a Tank Job.

However, if SE wants to continuing making Tank Jobs they will eventually need to go beyond what they have now. What you may consider obscure and undesirable may not have that effect once it has been implamented not to mention there are different opinions from different people so what may be considered obscure and undesirable may not be for another person. Those obscure and undesirable Tank Jobs may even become Tank Jobs desired beyond simply their appearance and Nostalgia senses.

What I'm saying is that there is an abundantly clear shortage of unique thematic tanks that SE can choose to add that easily fit the archetype of what they use as tanks (Fending armor). Of those options, the majority of them are some variant of knight (Mystic Knight, Rune Fencer, Templar etc.) Of course as they continue to make tank jobs they will likely touch on these options eventually. The issue is that they have a clear cut option that is both in-line with their tanks AND very popular. It is absolutely undeniable that Samurai is one of, if not THE most requested job to be added to this game, it gets mentioned in interviews and live letters all the time. So it is a stupid idea to take one of the viable tank jobs that we know is a job that is widely requested, and turn it into a DPS, taking it out of the pool of potential and easy to implement tanks with a popular draw to help attract more players to tanking.

What you're suggesting is an incredible gamble. That maybe they can take an obscure job that no one's really asking for and make it appealing. This is a business, it's in their best interest to take a job they already know has a huge allure (Like they did with DRK) and make it a tank. We already know SE generally takes safer options when developing new things for this game. This is why the last jobs added didn't reinvent the wheel, and all the content since the game came out has been relatively safe from a design standpoint.

[DWolfwood]

When I started XI, I had no idea what a tank was, I just chose Warrior instinctively. Looking up info on the game while starting out, I was immediately drawn to Paladin and didn't really care about what the job duties or role was about, I just wanted to play Paladin.