SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[Tanathya]

I agree with you,too much people still have XI in mind and thinks XIV should be exactly the same. Like the thing about DRK using Scythes, when on ALL FF where Dark Knight appear they used swords, XI is the only one in which they use Scythes. But I read in a lot of sites people complaining that DRK doesn't use Scythes.

I've seen (and took part in) many complaints about FFXIV's DRK, and let me tell you, none of them have been precisely about them not using scythes. Also, FF Explorers.

[Xlantaa]

I've seen (and took part in) many complaints about FFXIV's DRK, and let me tell you, none of them have been precisely about them not using scythes. Also, FF Explorers.

I know, It was a example. The major compalin is not being DPS or not being exatly like the "sacrifice" class who uses his Hp to enhaced damage, or how his tanking is. Things like that.

[duceTRE]

Make SAM a class, and have the job from said class, be either DPS or TANK. And let the people decide that way. You'll have some be tanks, and some be DPS. I'll just grab some popcorn and watch.

[Shippuu]

A hammer tank can have a very distinct look, too (really, mystic knight or templar would work with a mace/hammer). Not to mention weapon variety would be a good thing in the long run. It's tiring to see every tank job wielding slashing weapons. We should also remember that some people might want to use those slashing weapons to top DPS meters instead of holding aggro.
If you mean the slashing/blunt debuff thing, that's actually one of the things that should go for the sake of trying to even out tank DPS and removing the notion of certain class comps not working well (see: MNK/DRK in a raid comp). Even if you weren't to remove those debuffs, a tank being able to apply a blunt debuff wouldn't exactly break anything. If anything it'd probably be similar to the WAR/NIN synergy we see now.

I think we have a different opinion on what "A very distinct look" is because that is a generic knight of which we have a-plenty. You do realize the irony in saying a SAM would be an overlap and then suggest Mystic Knight and Templar, both of which are Knight archetypes of which we have 2 knight-themed tanks already.
How is a 1 handed hammer any different in animations than the 1 handed sword Paladin's use? How is a 2 Handed hammer any different in animations than the 2 Handed axe Warrior's have? Any argument supporting that hammers could be unique in terms of appearance/animations can also be made for Samurai and their weapons. They are distinctly different than both PLD swords and DRK swords, held differently, moved about differently etc.
You're also acting like DPS have no slashing damage available to them, which is factually untrue i.e. Ninja. In fact, DPS have the most options in terms of types of damage and available styles they can play as, by a lot. (7 DPS options, as opposed to 3 tanks and 3 healers.)


Also, realistically, the type of damage is such a non-issue that it doesn't matter if everything in the game did slashing damage or whatever. People are getting uppity over the "type" of damage a job deals when it honestly doesn't matter in the slightest. There doesn't have to be any semblance of "balance" in terms of what types of damage every job does.

The more tank jobs doesn't necessarily mean the more people tanking. You'll see more people on the job for the first couple of months, then they'll go back to whatever they enjoy doing. Happened with tank knig... Dark knight, will happen with whatever comes next.

More tank jobs doesn't mean more tank players, correct, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try and get more. As opposed to giving tank players nothing and you can guarantee you'll see the number of tank players go down. Tank numbers staying the same is far better than tank numbers going down. And if they're smart they'll continue to add tank roles. Just look at WoW, every class they've added to the game can be a tank.

If they want another tank, they can add something like Barbarian or Warlock. No need to waste Samurai for it.

If they want another dps they can use any of the ton of FF jobs that can fit a DPS role, Dancer, Red Mage, Blue Mage, Ranger, etc. etc. etc. No need to waste Samurai that actually easily fits SE's idea of tanks (Heavy armored defenders) as a dps job.

It doesn't matter the game, but so long as they use the holy trinity of tank/healer/DD, there will always be an abundance of players playing dps and a shortage of players filling the roles of tank/healer. And it always amuses me that some folks solution is "THEY NEED TO ADD MORE TANK/HEALER CLASSES THEN THERE WOULD BE MORE TANK/HEALERS PLAYER" when that has been repeatedly refuted. While there's absolutely nothing wrong with additional tank/healing classes, there will ALWAYS be a shortage of players willing to fill those roles.

So your solution is to never add new exciting thing for tank players so that the shortage of tanks actually goes down as people try the fresh shiny newly added jobs? Tell me how that's any kind of solution to a problem that is a shortage of tanks? It's better to at least try and come up with any number of reasons to entice people to play tanks than it is to just sit there and go "Well this is just how it is and how it always will be."


[QUOTE=EdwinLi;3675481]I think you miss the bigger picture on why Sam should be something else other than a Tank.

As SAM can be easily seen as a Tank due to being one of the classes that can be easily given heavy Tank Armor it is also a bit linear in concept if only classes people can see wearing Heavy Armor can be Tanks.

-Snip-QUOTE]

You're the one missing the bigger picture here, i.e. the developmental picture. While it's stale to have tanks always wear heavy armor, it makes the development work a lot easier. This is why our jobs are very homogenized. They don't have the time nor resources to be making huge experimental archetypes of tanking, creating complex mechanics and entire categories of armor just for them (more sets need to be designed, coded, implemented, not to mention polluting loot tables even more for no reason).

They could do what you ask for but it would cost a lot more dev time and resources, meaning we wouldn't get the loaded content patches every 3 months like we do. You need to step back and look at things from a more realistic approach.

[Tanathya]

More tank jobs doesn't mean more tank players, correct, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try and get more. As opposed to giving tank players nothing and you can guarantee you'll see the number of tank players go down. Tank numbers staying the same is far better than tank numbers going down. And if they're smart they'll continue to add tank roles. Just look at WoW, every class they've added to the game can be a tank.

Nor I said it would hurt, but the idea that the more tank jobs, the better DF-wise has proven to be false. Everyone jumped on DRK when they released it, and almost exactly two months after, queues were the same as they always were. Does this mean they don't have to add more tank jobs? No. However, people need to stop thinking that a vast amount of tank jobs will somehow quicken the queues for everyone else; players will not play the role they don't like.

If they want another dps they can use any of the ton of FF jobs that can fit a DPS role, Dancer, Red Mage, Blue Mage, Ranger, etc. etc. etc. No need to waste Samurai that actually easily fits Yoshida's idea of tanks (Heavy armored defenders) as a dps job.

Fixed it for you.

[silentwindfr]

not every samurai was heavy armored, most of them was using chain mail, that wasn't really heavy armored armor like the paladin and such.
plus, what will bring as gameplay the samurai to the tanking? nothing news... it will still be a physical tank with a 2 hand weapon mostly relying on the parry... what we have already with the drk and war.

plus a tank is not forced to have a heavy armor, they can perfectly create a tank purely magic that will use different spell as defense...

believe me, even if they add sam as tank, the DF situation will not change! because people simply don't like to play tank that was always like this and will never change whatever you try!

ps: and anyway, it's useless to talk about this, the director of the game (yoshida) have said that for him sam is a dps... we can argue he is still the one deciding not us.

[KuroganeAre]

DPS OR RIOT!!!

[Anienai]

And Ninja was supposed to be a ranged DD with close combat WS, and Drg a DD with a decent focus on the pet.. They really didn't work on the Zilart job ideas that well.

They gave us Beastmaster and that's what really matters.

[Quor]

Tanking is boring.

Why should they waste a good job like Samurai for the tank role?

Clearly you're not doing it right. Nothing is more exciting than "accidentally" facing a boss the wrong way. You'll never see people move faster or with more purpose than when they realize that Sephirot has turned to face them and is winding up for that big punch of his.

[FabricioRF]

SAM is going to be a Healer.

/thread