SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[MagiusNecros]

Still not a reason to not try and do things to help alleviate the problem.

They can start with a magic tank.

[Shippuu]

They can start with a magic tank.

Please go back and read my previous comments on the topic of magic tanks and provide a valid solution to the numerous issues that arise when dealing with a "magic" tank that don't include a tremendous amount of additional time/money from the development team or be an absolute nightmare to balance. Even then, considering over half the magic classes in the game are healers, you ideally don't want to lure them from their role.

But to sum up the issues:
-Itemization, how are they going to handle gear?
-Casting, they cannot stand still and cast, tanks must be mobile, especially for content like PvP
-Iconic jobs that fit the idea of tanking that are also widely requested/popular
-How this concept is more popular (And thus a safer bet) than a requested job (SAM) that is brought up every week.
-How is this job going to be balanced? With wild concepts for abilities comes exponentially more difficulty when balancing


Different =/= better. Saying "add a magic tank" is not a solution with thought-out and reasonable/practical expectations.

[MagiusNecros]

Different =/= better. Saying "add a magic tank" is not a solution with thought-out and reasonable/practical expectations.

So you want them to try but also want them to not try?

[Shippuu]

So you want them to try but also want them to not try?

Im not going to answer that until you answer what I asked you. Back up your claims.

[MagiusNecros]

Im not going to answer that until you answer what I asked you. Back up your claims.

You won't answer that because you don't have an answer to it.

But to sum up the issues:
-Itemization, how are they going to handle gear? You want them to stick to fending gear when coding in a new set is laughably easy. All you are doing is enabling them to be lazy and take the path of least resistance.
-Casting, they cannot stand still and cast, tanks must be mobile, especially for content like PvP Instant cast spells are already a thing and adding a stance that prevents interruption could also be a thing.
-Iconic jobs that fit the idea of tanking that are also widely requested/popular Then why do people clamor for SAM to be a DPS?
-How this concept is more popular (And thus a safer bet) than a requested job (SAM) that is brought up every week. Red Mage is also a highly requested job. So your point is what?
-How is this job going to be balanced? With wild concepts for abilities comes exponentially more difficulty when balancing The dev team is responsible for their jaded, archaic and pedantic balance.

Beat it chump.

[Katana190]

-Itemization, how are they going to handle gear? You want them to stick to fending gear when coding in a new set is laughably easy. All you are doing is enabling them to be lazy and take the path of least resistance.

Please no. Adding yet another set of armor will be real shitty to raiding (Savage, 24 man, Tome Gear, etc.). The alternative would be to share casting gear, yet another crap alternative as DPS Casters would be prioritised for the gear. Or the easy route, let RDM use Fending Gear.. Its not lazy, its convenient, for SE and the player base. If people really don't want their RDM in Plate Mail then thats why the glamour system is there.. I'm sure the AF gear which comes with RDM will also stick to the theme, but with armor plating. (Providing it is a tank)

[MagiusNecros]

Please no. Adding yet another set of armor will be real shitty to raiding (Savage, 24 man, Tome Gear, etc.). The alternative would be to share casting gear, yet another crap alternative as DPS Casters would be prioritised for the gear. Or the easy route, let RDM use Fending Gear.. Its not lazy, its convenient, for SE and the player base. If people really don't want their RDM in Plate Mail then thats why the glamour system is there.. I'm sure the AF gear which comes with RDM will also stick to the theme, but with armor plating. (Providing it is a tank)

Then you are left with fending and the only real gear that will match SAM/RDM will be Artifact gear. Why bother adding new sets if people will glamour over hideous gear set designs anyway. Not lazy but convenient you say? I say it's conveniently lazy.

[Shippuu]

-Itemization, how are they going to handle gear? You want them to stick to fending gear when coding in a new set is laughably easy. All you are doing is enabling them to be lazy and take the path of least resistance.

Huh, I wasn't aware you were part of their development team as a coder, with intricate knowledge of their gear coding to be able to even comment on the simplicity of the action. Silly me!

Sarcasm aside, you can't really comment on the difficulty of something like that. Regardless if you want to consider it lazy development, or just realistically using your resources it doesn't change the fact that the chances are very high the next tank job (if there is a next tank job) it will continue to use Fending armor. Of the two tanks proposed (RMD or SAM) Samurai is the one with the most history of wearing heavy armor and is thus the more likely option. It also has plenty of other common features with the other tanks which while not providing more diversity offers up an easier time balancing which again is the more likely option they will take.

-Casting, they cannot stand still and cast, tanks must be mobile, especially for content like PvP Instant cast spells are already a thing and adding a stance that prevents interruption could also be a thing.

These things have been discussed before and ultimately with these solutions, how would this job be any different then PLD and DRK? They have instant cast (And some cast time) spells. DRK manages MP as a prominent mechanic. You would have a melee attacking job with instant cast magic spells, which just isn't that much different than what we've already got.

-Iconic jobs that fit the idea of tanking that are also widely requested/popular Then why do people clamor for SAM to be a DPS?

Because people are selfish and want the role that they play most. More players play DPS jobs = more people ask for it to be a DPS. Doesn't change that adding tank roles and healing roles are far more important to the health of this game then a constant stream of DPS jobs.

-How this concept is more popular (And thus a safer bet) than a requested job (SAM) that is brought up every week. Red Mage is also a highly requested job. So your point is what?

My point is between these 2 very requested jobs, one of them fits as a tanking role far more easily than the other. Easier = more likely to happen when time and money are factored into the equation.

-How is this job going to be balanced? With wild concepts for abilities comes exponentially more difficulty when balancing The dev team is responsible for their jaded, archaic and pedantic balance.

They're also responsible for putting out buckets of content every 3 months. Call them lazy all you want but there isn't another MMO on the market that pushes content like they do.

You won't answer that because you don't have an answer to it.

So you want them to try but also want them to not try?

I would love for them to have infinite freedom to make whatever their wildest imaginations can think of, but at the same time the reality situation is they are only human, they are a business, they have time and budget constraints. It's fun to think of all kinds of wild and crazy ideas but in the end things need to be grounded.

[Shippuu]

Don't get me wrong, it would be interesting to add new armor sets for new jobs, but I'll stick by saying it would be an inconvenience for me because it would and that's just the truth, I like playing every tank possible (Again, this goes for a lot of tanks too) we would get over this with time. Although I still very much doubt SE will do this, as people believe SE are lazy, I believe they wouldn't do it because of people who play all the tank jobs wanting to gear them equally. The foundation has already been set though, like I said, but maybe we'll see some tanks use the current gears within the game besides Fending.

Thank you for being someone else who realizes these things. The fact tanks share gear is very likely a design choice. It provides benefits like giving tank players (Who they want to remain interested and playing their game)the possibility to gear the 3 jobs simultaneaously. This allows them the flexibility to change which tank they play on the fly. Bored of WAR? Play PLD for a little bit without having to spend months re-gearing it.

By adding a tank that steps away from this benefit you create issues where tank players must decide which tanks they gear. Do they go for the 3-in-1 combo of fending gear? Or do they go with the new tank only? Of course, the new tank could share gear with a DPS, then you have people gearing a DPS and a Tank at the same time. That's certainly a perk, as well as incentive for DPS to try out said tank, but then it doesn't offer much of a gateway towards the other 3 tanks which ideally you want people to try and play all the tanks.

In the end it's up to SE. Take the easier path and keep their tanks in-line with each other with gearing and other common traits, or try and change things up which creates a bit more work on their part.

[Titor]

Huh, I wasn't aware you were part of their development team as a coder, with intricate knowledge of their gear coding to be able to even comment on the simplicity of the action. Silly me!

It does not take intricate knowledge of gear coding to be able to use a database/update a json file/other data storage mechanism.

I hate it when people use these belittling arguments of 'you do not work for them you know nothing'.

I mean, common code practices and anyone with a shred of knowledge about data storage could probably figure out how to add an item if given an opportunity to. Diadem randomizes gear stats, so there is probably a way in the code to add these things on the fly.

The hardest part would be modeling an item/localization. But if they reuse the same item model then it just becomes entering stats into whatever data storage mechanism they use.