SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[ADVSS]

I like that concept id even go as far to say if tank sam should be an evasion/.parry proc tank, using some sort of third eye power

[ShinMetsu]

I don't get why so many people wanna be at the mercy of RNG for a big part of their mitigation and rendered entirely vulnerable to magic.

[Shurrikhan]

Just a spit-ball design prompt:

Samurai <> Ronin (Job & Class)

:: Why have a class? Why not a dual job for tank and DPS separately?

There are two things I absolutely want to cover for this design, and a third to lesser extent.
First, I'd like to move away from rigid role models, e.g. the 3 three-part combo tank with 4-5 mitigational, recovery, or eHP-increasing abilities (ToB, RI, Vengeance, (traited) FS, IB; DD, DM, SS, SW; Bulwark, Rampart, Sentinel, (traited) Convalescence, (traited) Awareness) and 1-3 reductive abilities, with greater strength or coverage at the lower arsenal sizes (Storm's Path; Delirium, Reprisal, DA-DP; Flash, RoH). The more I can move away from that stale design, the less its precedence should limit future designs, and the better our chances are for unique, refreshing, interesting gameplay.
Second, I wanted to move away from rigid roles themselves. I have tried to introduce here class resources that have can be consumed in line with multiple roles, rather than placing a large portion of the class/job arsenal within defensive CDs that go wasted (apart from Abandon stacks on Warrior) unless actively tanking. I feel like there needn't be such a large gap in role potential between different jobs, only that the total simultaneous capabilities of a given job across multiple roles or needs does not so outweigh any other's that they become favored for or trivialize compositional choices. In other words, I'd be fine with a Monk in half-plate for increased defense at a cost to damage that the then-current meta would fine appropriate, at least for irregular uses or irregular compositions. Similarly, I'd be fine with a Warrior more than pretending to be a full-time DPS if his passive defense wasn't simultaneously so much higher than a true DPS's, such as by wearing half-plate, down from full, in order to increase damage at cost to defense, and if his arsenal wasn't so largely composed of explicitly personal defensive abilities.
But at the same time, neither do I want to trivialize and component of a particular class or job. For instance, I like the idea that MTs and "OTs" are both just tanks rotating in according to CDs even when not thus forced by mechanics such as vulnerability stacks; it should almost always be more effective, given two equally skilled and geared tanks and DPS-capable healers, for an OT WAR to swap in to actually make good use of his defensive CDs, especially when the MT has depleted his, rather than making use only of the added Wrath/Abandon stacks for Fell Cleaves windows.
Last and least, I'd like to see Classes given a real place in the game, again, even if not perhaps in raids. Now, as it stands, raids are the game. That too I find limiting, but outside the scope of this mock-up and its background changes. Let it suffice to say that the Ronin, while very similar to the Samurai, offers certain gameplay aspects that the Samurai does not, largely through cross-class *traits* and abilities, where certain combinations are almost worthy of their own pseudo-job title. *See below*

Background Changes:

I'll add more details as requested, but for now a brief list should do:

Enmity Revisions

• AI changes now allow for multiple stages of 'enmity' or 'focus'.
• Enmity may influence mob behavior in ways beyond mere targeting, such as by enraging the enemy or accelerating their skill-set use (albeit at less power). Effects vary from AI to AI. Many core boss-rotational factors or skills that would otherwise be much less survivable are not affected in this way, while others still may require a high degree of enmity in order to force a mob to rush its attack before its reached pull power, or to extend certain phases.
• The tank no longer merely deals with phases and their damage as they come; he also manipulates much of it beyond mitigation.
• Generating enmity commands the enemy's attention; doing so will to a degree increase their accuracy and defenses against you, but may sap those qualities against other attackers (essentially diminishing certain elements of defense).
• Enmity patterns more notable for DPS may also vary -- some bosses may split enmity gains based on angle, calculate different output types (healing, damage, or mitigation) differently, or calculate additional enmity from actions done within its field of view.

Armory System

• Certain skills have been detached from their base classes and are instead given to all classes or jobs within the shared role upon reaching a certain level (e.g. Provoke, Cleric Stance). (QoL and some positive future consequences)
• Numerous abilities' acquisition levels have been revised. Abilities that did not previously provide a noticeable effect on gameplay at their acquisition level (e.g. Rampart, Foresight, Raging Strikes) have been delayed to points at which they are much more likely to carry a usable effect, while other more interesting abilities that contribute to gameplay feel, aesthetics, decision making, or class identity have been moved up in level. Because of the above change, the added levels necessary to reach cross-class skills to be used on higher-level classes that can already make notable use of them in no longer a concern. (Just good design)
• Numerous traits have been revised to provide more mechanically-effective and identity-driven gameplay. Just as notably, many traits may now be cross-classed. (Very important)
• Traits and abilities can, to a degree, be learned in a freer order. (Very optional, but with interesting implications)

Class Changes

• Several classes, most notably the Dark Knight, Gladiator, and Paladin, have received major changes aimed at increased identity and versatility. Several survivability tools usable by DPS classes and jobs now have more significant and reliable effects.
• Will detail this list later for both........(Long)
• Tank changes follow the above philosophy of increased versatility without providing so much increased simultaneous multi-role power as to eclipse other choices. No part of an arsenal should go utterly forgotten, and all arsenals should feel more multiform and synergistic (without forcing delay of any one ability for another, etc., the one major downside of high synergy).

Gameplay

• Target facing has been improved.

• 'Face target' is still useful for movement in the direction of a particular enemy, etc., but spamming the key is no longer necessary for moving about during auto-attacks, etc., or in PvP. The character animation will realistically turn the upper body as needed to attack a much wider angle of opening.
• When affected by facing-specific effects such as Second Coil - Turn 2's Cursed Voice, near to effect or release, certain of these turning changes will be temporarily reverted and your true facing will be clearly marked.

• The angular attack range of mobs have been similarly widened and they now turn at a more appearance-appropriate rate.

• A giant lizard, for instance, will no longer spin about wildly on its belly every time the tank moves left or right a bit, with its planted legs somehow sliding about the floor.
• This is primarily a graphical change, but does offer changes to gameplay as well, wherein a tanking player may quickly dart in and back from key positions without interrupting the enemy's facing or thereby disrupting allied positional against the target.

Synopsis: The Ronin class and its Samurai job use free-form combinations of situational and sequentially-augmented abilities for additional effects and 'Releases' (conditional oGCD finishers), building, carrying, utilizing, and expending 'blade spirits'. They carry a long sword, iconically the katana, and a short blade usable as for oGCD attacks and throws. They have three fluid, temporary stances, besides the default, each shifted into based on certain oGCDs, one allowing both swords to be used simultaneously, another sheathing the blade to adjust movement and evasion at cost of parry and attacks while charging the blade for your next attack, and a third letting the blade rest downward at an increased rate of smaller parries (largely flat reduction) while attacking at the opponent's rate, paced with counterattacks and draw cuts rather than your own swings. Each unlocks additional effects and adjusts various other abilities.

Ronin gameplay is macro-rotational. Not only do certain sequences of abilities form particular strings, but each string by way of its buffs or debuffs then situationally favors certain others. The effects possible are not limited to damage alone; the Ronin, though at cost to its dps and offensive support potential, is very capable of mitigation and recovery, making it an optionally Hybrid class. The Ronin's arsenal is similarly loose in that it has few wholly single-target or AoE abilities, commonly striking a blend wherein either end is still usable in either situation, and very few effects are entirely purposed for DPS or mitigation/recovery specifically. The Ronin excels when it is best able to make use of its flexibility to indirectly improve the party's performance (by assuming particular ideal roles more than by applying true buffs), a near perfect irregular to fit into the ranks of any group.

The Samurai shifts the class's point on the DPS-Tank spectrum slightly, allowing the player to don full plate armor and allowing 'armor spirits' in addition to blade spirits. Its support aspects still take from other possible builds (the rotations used to generate particular effects), but can now more directly aid the party. The shift from Ronin to Samurai is a shift from the evasive hunter and versatile opportunist to hardened vanguard and strike-leader, introducing a third tier of Releases, an enlarged health pool, and much more reliable mitigation. It does not however follow the path of most tanks in receiving a package of on-demand mitigation cooldowns. Rather than using primarily cooldowns, mitigation for the Samurai is still based on builds, sequence-based buffs and generated resources. It can merely spend these on average mitigation roughly equal to other tanks, with nearly the same ease (assuming a wise margin of resource, similar to mana upkeep on DRK) and maximum eHP, while providing similarly comparable raid DPS output. It still has zero pure self-defensive skills.


For anyone wanting the interview component mentioning Samurai (vs. DRK):
From < http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...12_673698.html >

――暗黒騎士は“両手剣のタンク”というお話ですが、暗黒騎士をチョイスされた理由となぜタンクなのかという理由をお伺いできますか？

吉田氏：　タンクはみんなの盾役として常に前線に出ていく花形だと思うのです。プレイの特性上難しい面もありますが、プライドを持ってタンクをプレイしてくれている方は、本当にゲームを好きでいてくれているんだろうなと感じます。ですので追加はまずタンクから決めていこうと。その際に皆さんから「○○ジョブが欲しい！」というアイデアを沢山いただきました。その中に侍という選択肢がなかったわけではないのですが、ギリギリまで検討した上で、「蒼天のイシュガルド」のコンセプトや世界観と照らし合わせ、暗黒騎士で着地させました。

　僕の中の侍のイメージは、着流しに刀を下げ、居合の達人という感じです。どちらかと言えば、ロールはDPSのイメージの方が強いのです。また早い段階からパッチ2.4で忍者の実装が決まっていたため、和ジョブが続くのは印象的にどうかなと。「蒼天のイシュガルド」はハイファンジー寄りでダークな雰囲気でいこうと思っていますので、やはり今回はイメージに合わないということが大きいです。リクエストの多いジョブですし、期待している方もいると思うので、今回は見送りとなりましたが、今後も引き続き検討していこうと思います。

[Katana190]

one person post this in a old thread

"Regarding Samurai
They had an idea to make Samurai a tank. However because the Heavensward (I think they call it Souten no Ishigard in Jp) theme is dark, they felt a dark knight was more fitting for the role.
Inside of YoshiP the Samurai feels more like a DPS than a tank.
Since they released the Ninja job,they didn't want another Japanese style job
They decided to skip Samurai for now but since a lot of people request it they are still examining whether to add it in the future"
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ai-Job-DPS-Job

this is the only thing whe know about the samurai, ppl belive what they want.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's exactly what you're thinking. People misunderstanding an already bad translation

And thank you. At the end of the day idm what they do with SAM, don't get me wrong, I'll be salty af if its a DPS but I'll get over it like the DPS mains got over DRK's being a tank. Regardless I would really love SE to make a WAR replacement and that's why my vote stays on SAM being a tank, it would just fit in perfectly.

[Kyuuen]

We've already got a one handed sword wielding tank and a two handed sword wielding tank. I say throw it to DPS, that'll cover the two handed sword wielding DPS spot, and come up with something currently not in use weapon wise for a new tank.

[Shippuu]

We've already got a one handed sword wielding tank and a two handed sword wielding tank. I say throw it to DPS, that'll cover the two handed sword wielding DPS spot, and come up with something currently not in use weapon wise for a new tank.

Samurai could easily be made as a dual wielding tank. We don't have a dual wielding tank yet.

Also, everyone who wants it as a dps is so quick to say just use something else for a new tank yet never offers up any ideas of anything nearly as visually interesting or requested/popular as samurai.

[FinalWolf]

Samurai could easily be made as a dual wielding tank. We don't have a dual wielding tank yet.

Also, everyone who wants it as a dps is so quick to say just use something else for a new tank yet never offers up any ideas of anything nearly as visually interesting or requested/popular as samurai.

Still hoping we get whatever Raubahn Aldynn job is. It looks too beastly.

[EdwinLi]

Samurai could easily be made as a dual wielding tank. We don't have a dual wielding tank yet.

Also, everyone who wants it as a dps is so quick to say just use something else for a new tank yet never offers up any ideas of anything nearly as visually interesting or requested/popular as samurai.

Viking with Hammer weapon.

it really a matter on looking into past FF classes and what Weapons they have used to get the desire Tank/DPS/Healer job people want.

Samurai is only easy because it is one of the few easily remembered jobs with a easy to remember iconic weapon being the katana.

However, SAM will need to have some unique mechanic tweaks to them if they decide to go parry tank or counter tanks as current content doesn't provide tank much room to stop attacking before the DPS players catch up to their aggro and the issue with giving SAM the ability to be the only tank to Parry Magic based attacks.

Countering is something easily remembered as a waiting to be attacked but current content does not allow Tanks to wait and be attacked or else they risk losing their aggro and then giving SAM the ability to be the only Tank to Parry Magic attacks will certainly bring in a lot of complaints on how the other tanks can not parry Magic base attacks. Then there is the issue that will happen if they don't change Parry to allow it to also reduce Magic base attacks as then SAM may end up being look as best only used against Physical attacking enemies/bosses if SAM end up with a good amount of skills that depend a lot on them getting a parry.

Certain people want SAM as a Tank but how they want it to be a Tank has issues as well with how their mechanic may be handled and how will it not result in the other Tank Jobs to be not neglected.

[ShinMetsu]

I feel like i'm starting to see a trend here, People that generally appear to be playing tank want SAM as a tank, people that generally appear to be playing DPS want SAM as a DPS
And healers want SAM as a Hybrid

[Xlantaa]

Viking is very similar to a barbarian/berserk, and we already have one, the Warrior. Also, you think that Viking will be more interesting than Samurai to balance the DF queues in case of Viking tank and Samurai DPS? Only people who played FFIII know this class, and it i basically a berserk. Like I said few post ago, what class can compite with Samurai in popularity to balance the DF in the first days of launch? Dark Knigh on 3.0 was massively popular to the point that on first weeks the DPS got insta queues while tanks got a normal queues and sometimes long queues.

I feel like i'm starting to see a trend here, People that generally appear to be playing tank want SAM as a tank, people that generally appear to be playing DPS want SAM as a DPS
And healers want SAM as a Hybrid

Exactly, I said that several post ago. It is undestanblade. But still, I don't like one of the excuses for not being tnk. "We have already 2 sword wielding tanks" And? The game shuld be balanced in gameplay and jobs, but nothing about what weapon should have.