SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[DWolfwood]

...why would anyone be pissed if both DPS players and Tank players got a samurai class? That's a moot point anyway since Yoshi-P isn't going to do it, anyway. If we had it my way, there would be 2 samurai classes like you proposed. It won't happen so there's not a lot to discuss.

Pessimist much? The whole purpose of this thread is to get people to support the idea of both because if enough people support it, it will happen. Contrary to what the people who claim that Yoshida said, "sam is a dps" say, what Yoshida really said was that he would look to us to help him decide what to do with samurai.

Don't feel like Yoshida and his team pay no attention to what the players want. That's the whole reason why these forums exist in the first place.

[Krissey]

As for correct representations, yes there are tons of ways to portray them. My question is, do you think that if we got a Shogun tank, would a Ronin DPS be too much, considering we'd have a Samurai tank and two eastern DPS already?

First of all calling them "Shogun" or "Ronin" is..pointless. They're terms you made up to distinguish their roles. SquareEnix will just call it "Samurai" one way or the other. Second: No I don't think it would be too much to have a Samurai DPS. Third what is the other "Eastern" DPS? We have Ninja and...?

Monk = Ala Mhigan order the Fist of Rhalgr...which is right next to Garlemand Empire and Eorzea.
Dragoon = Ishgardian Order of Knights for killing Dragons
Machinist = Ishgardian Order of Soldiers for Killing Dragons
Summoner = Ancient Study of Magic from Amdapor or something
Black Mage = Ancient Study of Magic by some ancient city state
Bard = Gridanian form of support troops

So...who else is from the East? O.o

[Ciri_Wolf]

stuff

I don't know how he would make 2 classes of Samurai after he already admitted making so many classes was hard to do. Why would their team waste resources on making 2 roles for one job instead of making 2 jobs? Lots of people want Dancer or Red Mage. Like I said, if it were up to me we'd have two samurai. One would be heavy armor tank while the other would be a more romanticized version. Then they'd even feel unique. I can't see it happening, no matter how much I'd want it, but anything is possible. It'd be a first for XIV.

Also, if they listened to every single thing we wanted, DRK would be a DPS right now. Maybe we could influence what role the SAM will be, but I doubt they're gonna make multiple.

[DWolfwood]

First of all calling them "Shogun" or "Ronin" is..pointless. They're terms you made up to distinguish their roles.

And? That's the whole point of this thread...

SquareEnix will just call it "Samurai" one way or the other.

"Thief" -> Rogue.

Monk = Ala Mhigan order the Fist of Rhalgr...which is right next to Garlemand Empire and Eorzea.

who else is from the East? O.o

Okay, so first of all, Doma isn't the only place in the "East." We got other nations with different themes on the continent of Othard. The recent interview with Koji Fox gets into this.

Second, "East" is used by both players and the development team in two different ways. We have the East in the game, which is Othard, and we have the East in real life. If by some chance we get a RDM, BLU, DNC, RNG, BST, etc. from Rabanastre or Dalmasca, yes they're "Eastern" jobs within the context of the game, but they're not what art designers would call "Eastern-themed" jobs.

This however, would be:

Why would their team waste resources on making 2 roles for one job instead of making 2 jobs?... Like I said, if it were up to me we'd have two samurai. One would be heavy armor tank while the other would be a more romanticized version. Then they'd even feel unique.

Again, the reason why they'd do this is because people want it. Like you just said, it's what you want, and it would even feel unique. If enough people get behind the idea, we will see it.

[Tanathya]

Don't feel like Yoshida and his team pay no attention to what the players want. That's the whole reason why these forums exist in the first place.

Also, if they listened to every single thing we wanted, DRK would be a DPS right now.

They made a poll when Yoshida took over, and they didn't listen. What Ciri said just there is proof of that very same poll. So no, they don't really listen to the players, or they wouldn't be pulling the "PS3 limitations" excuse so often.

[Aaliyahrose]

Looking into the job mechanics of other classes...

MNK focuses on greased lightning stacks for their job mechanic
DRG focuses on Blood of the Dragon and ability procs
NIN focuses on Ninjutsu
BRD focusing on songs for support

What do you think we would see for SAM?

Based off of some of the previous games, SAM focused a lot on mobility/evasion and countering. SAM also had a mechanic of stacking evasion or a certain stat (i.e AP or evasion) to perform a stronger attack.

If SAM were a DPS we would most likely see a stacking job mechanic, like Critical Hit rate increase. (Similar to Wrath)
Or since SAM focuses on evasion, (evasion being useless in this game anyway) instead it could be a chance to proc oGCDs during combo attacks on the SAM ability list.
SAM as a DPS is a strong melee type with Higher HP than other jobs. Similar to MNK in HP pool.
I would consider SAM as a Strength type job instead of a Dexterity job simply because of its higher HP in other FF games.

On the tank side we could generally see the same thing.

[Krissey]

You're super good at splitting hairs.

Convince me why 2 or even 3 DPS jobs "From the East" is too many. After all, isn't 3 "Western" Tanks too many? Shouldn't Dark Knight have been a "Western" DPS because we already had 2 "Western" Tanks? This makes literally no sense.

Also Rogue/Ninja is never called Thief in FFXIV...so I'm not sure why you brought that up. In the same way, I'm fairly certain in FF of any sort was there a "Ronin" or "Shogun" but rather only Samurai. It is what the developers call it...

Edit: Also to clarify I don't care if it is a tank or a healer or a DPS. In fact I would be fine if all we got for the next 6 expansions were magic users of various types and never got Samurai. I literally don't care. However based on common media portrayal etc... it makes sense that it would be a damage dealer rather than a tank.

Also just for reference Ala Mhigo is right next to Gridania... It's barely in the East in game, although I suppose as for "real life inspiration" Monk would be considered Eastern - sure...but in the real world, and in game Dark Knights..Dragoons...Machinists...all come from Ishgard which is in the West - and so do their real life counterparts (Knights are European, Gun powder came to Japan from Europe..Dragoons were calvary pikemen...from Europe...)

So again - is having all the "Western" DPS and Tanks too many "Western" DPS and Tanks? Why does the influence of the region in game or IRL matter /at all/?

[DWolfwood]

They made a poll when Yoshida took over, and they didn't listen. What Ciri said just there is proof of that very same poll. So no, they don't really listen to the players, or they wouldn't be pulling the "PS3 limitations" excuse so often.

Getting way off topic here, but thanks to that poll we got SMN next with a new healer, then we got NIN, and they got an idea where of how to design the next new race, Au Ra. Players really wanted DRK too, so we got that as well.

Convince me why 2 or even 3 DPS jobs "From the East" is too many. After all, isn't 3 "Western" Tanks too many? Shouldn't Dark Knight have been a "Western" DPS because we already had 2 "Western" Tanks? This makes literally no sense.

You really gotta work on your reading comprehension man. Go back and look at the very first post in this thread and you'll see that I want a Samurai DPS and Tank.

Also Rogue/Ninja is never called Thief in FFXIV...so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

It's actually referred to it in the class quests, and they explain why they're not the "thieves" guild. That said, the reason I brought it up is because it was always referred to as "thief" in preliminary talks before the class was announced. Much like samurai now.

However based on common media portrayal etc.

You really gotta just give this up. lol

So again - is having all the "Western" DPS and Tanks too many "Western" DPS and Tanks? Why does the influence of the region in game or IRL matter /at all/?

Because people use the argument saying that tanks have too many "swords" or "already have a 2h sword," so my question is "would a sam tank and dps be too much considering there are already two eastern themed dps?" If the answer is no, that dps can accommodate it, then I ask those people to please like my first post so that we can gain traction on this idea and bring two samurai to the game.

[Krissey]

You really gotta work on your reading comprehension man. Go back and look at the very first post in this thread and you'll see that I want a Samurai DPS and Tank.

I mean I understand. My reading comprehension is above average. I'm just being realistic. There's only going to be one Samurai. It's only going to have one role. Based on common portrayal it makes more sense for it to kill things with it's Katana than to be a tank soaking hits. Whether it is a tank, a DPS, a healer, or never comes out doesn't matter to me. I'm more than happy with Dragoon, Warrior, Astrologian etc... I play and enjoy every role. Just basing it off the general "conception" of the Samurai if you asked a common MMO player "Based on Anime, TV, and other portrayals does it make more sense for a Samurai to be DPS or Tank" they would probably answer DPS.

Matter of fact if you want my "real" take on it: I would rather not get Samurai at all. I would prefer more magic users. I would prefer other jobs in general. When I think of Final Fantasy the samurai job does not immediately come to mind.

[Aaliyahrose]

Based off of previous FF games however, Samurai didn't have as high an HP Pool as the WAR job, or the PLD job.

However, in FFX-2 the Samurai carried a Great Katana and I believe.

How can we put these Samurai abilities into FFXIV terms as an ability?

Reflex - Improve your evasion by remaining calm and exercising sound judgement.
Meditate - Calm your mind to streamline movement, resulting in shorter ability cooldown.
Tranquility - Focus your mind to recover the last 20 seconds of AP you have used.


Some Speculation...

Reflex - in FFXIV terms could be a stance based on the text, but it would not be for evasion.
Meditate - (I know MNK has meditation...) Could very well be a cooldown, increasing skill speed. (SAM is a mobile job)
Tranquility - In terms of AP, could translate into TP for this job.

*These could be stances? Or abilities or traits.*
(These are actual SAM job abilities from other FF games.)