Victimize recast and Simian Thrash

[Firon]

Ok I'm gonna try to make this short and sweet. I just want to say PGL is my favorite class, but what makes me angry is that, it feels like the Dev team buff's and nerfs PGL at the same time.

Example: They Buff Victimize for this patch and add an attack down debuff, but also add an 60 sec recast, I for one do not understand why this skill needs an 60 sec recast it seems utterly ridiculous to me for it have this long of a cool down. The other thing about Victimize is that we also have to hope mages can/will stick debuffs on mobs to get more damage from this weapon skill.

Next on the list is Simian Thrash, honestly I would rather them just delete this move from the game if they don't remove the retarded evade requirement to use it. The move is probably the strongest move in the game and we can not even utilize this move in combat(only solo), or in content because we are not the targets main focus, I can deal with the purple ball if you first remove the evade first.


I would like to hear other PGL players Opinion on this matter, I know that Simian Thrash has been touched on but we have not gotten a response about it.

Thanks for reading my rant lol.

[kwestro]

For Victimize, I think the 60 sec recast is fine. In the past I used to spam the hell out of it. The increased recast now forces me to utilize other PGL abilities, and fights have been just as fun. At least they increased the accuracy on Victimize. I hated having to equip Hawk's Eye or Still Precision to even out my luck.
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I can't speak on Simian Thrash since I haven't reached that ability yet.

[Firon]

No victimize is terrible for endgame w/o keen flury but then after that you are stuck w/ garbage WS Concussive blow or follow through, because simian thrash is garbage

[giottoV]

I think they should switch simian thrash and Victimize. Victimize after evasion and simian thrash has the long timer.

[Aleczan]

Next on the list is Simian Thrash, honestly I would rather them just delete this move from the game if they don't remove the retarded evade requirement to use it. The move is probably the strongest move in the game and we can not even utilize this move in combat(only solo), or in content because we are not the targets main focus, I can deal with the purple ball if you first remove the evade first.


I would like to hear other PGL players Opinion on this matter, I know that Simian Thrash has been touched on but we have not gotten a response about it.

I'm currently busy trying to level up and gather Guild Marks on mage classes for stat convert traits so I haven't been on my Pugilist much, but if you meant to use Simian Thrash it requires "Evade" only, I'm happy to let you know that now they changed it so we can use those "evade retaliate" WS (all 3) at any "miss" by the mob as well. Which I really like.

I am fine with Simian Thrash's requirement of evade.

I don't like the 60 recast timer on Victimize as well. Other class, like, say Lancer, has Doomspike II which deals lots more DMG (and also is line AoE) with recast of 10 second.... Victimize is about the heaviest early WS for us PGL, yet it's so hard to use due to new recast timer (I don't mind it taking all my TP). Sad ><;;

[Thainna]

I can't really say much for Simian Thrash since I don't have it yet, but I evade so often I don't think it would bother me. Then again, I solo alot. If I'm in a party (which I really haven't done yet), I would probably have my skills set up for behind attacks. I'm use to spamming Jarring Strike and Haymaker with each miss (most of the time I can get both in for 1 miss). I don't use Victimize that much unless I'm with someone else and can spare the TP.

Guess I'll find out once I get Simian Thrash though, so my opinion may change.

[Viridiana]

Yeah, the evade (miss) requirement on Simian is only really painful in groups. Of course, if you have Simian Thrash, you're level 50, so odds are all you're doing is end-game content. . . which means you're in a group, and one of PGL's best weapon skills is unavailable.

[Firon]

Some of you just Don't understand how useless Simian thrash is outside of solo. If i fight ifrit 25 times i will never get the chance to evade to use the skill EVER because i should not be getting hit anyway -.-.

I think they should switch simian thrash and Victimize. Victimize after evasion and simian thrash has the long timer.

No if they did this it still would not solve the DD problem. Lets look @ GLA's final ws it stops the mob from using weapon skills and it has an 10 sec recast. PGL have an attack down debuff and we get an 60 sec recast how the hell is that fair. I dealt with the mp cost on basic attacks but ws timers and evade requirement needs to go.

I Feel like they just want pgl to stand there and just AA in end game fights

[KRose]

Lets look @ GLA's final ws it stops the mob from using weapon skills and it has an 10 sec recast.

Actually, it stops you from using weaponskills and I believe it has a 30sec recast. The only way you can make it stop the target from using weaponskills is by using it in conjunction with Contagion - THM's 50 Ability.

Anyway, it does suck that Victimize is on a 60sec cooldown now. I don't even have Simian equipped for Ifrit but that doesn't make it useless... it makes it situational. I still get it off fairly easily in both the Ixali and Amaljaa strongholds. Kobolds are jerks and blah.

I haven't used PGL vs Ogre since 1.19 but as far as Ifrit goes I pretty much get TP w/o Pummel/Flurry -> Keen Flurry + Victimize II -> Invigorate + Pummel/Flurry -> Buff Victimize II (breaking horns woo) and then alternate Concussive Blow II + Follow-Through. No, the skills aren't outdamaging Lancer but I'm not there to out DD the Lancer. And once he starts jumping around and spamming constantly I don't even bother with CBII anymore since Follow-Through does more damage.

It's more of a balance issue than anything. The way stats work now, if Victimize II still had it's 10sec recast it'd be broken. If Simian Thrash could be used freely... Keen Flurry -> Simian Thrash would be broken. If they lowered the damage of ST in order to "balance" letting you use it without the evade requirement, you probably wouldn't want to use it at all anymore (but being able to break the left horn freely WOULD be fun).

[Vackashken]

I have to agree. The reason pgl is having issues in this regard is because we were clearly designed to be as tanks at the start. With us being the center of attention (if you will) it was easier to use out abilities. Now that we have been cut down in that regard (smaller HP pool crappy defense) our counter skills haven't been evolved to fit the way we have been modulated.

They will either have to adjust the trigger on said skills or (what I hope for) is give us better tanking tools and make evasion mean a damn. Either or I think we're just stuck in the middle of what they're deciding to do with us.