Victimize recast and Simian Thrash

[giottoV]

lol at that. "Thank your for your contribution lol" hahaha

[Synfrag]

Don't know if this has been said before but it's pretty silly to complain or argue over what we have or don't have for endgame seeing as how we will have the major skill overhaul in two weeks and then jobs in another two months. Jobs are intended to be our party roles, complain then.

As far as I am concerned, I keep pace with other classes and I'm usually the last to die thanks to that evasion and healing abilities. And we can tank, Taunt > Featherfoot > Foresight > Follow Through > Victimize II > Presence of Mind > Turn around & Cure II > Accomplice CNJ, Rinse and repeat that and you will hold hate. As long as you have a good CNJ healing and casting stoneskin you will survive just fine. Though this is not a viable option for crowd control or Ifrit.

[Vackashken]

Silly or not it is a pain in the ass not to particularly shine at anything and sucks to muddle through.

Suppose I could conform and just use my lancer all the time.


naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah~

[giottoV]

simian thrash is so useless in a party. not only it has a ridiculous timer but you gotta evade an attack first? what the heck~ then I see marauders and lancers spamming their powerfull moves like theres no tomorrow and what do we get to spam? a freakin concussive blow and sometimes victimize...

[NoctisUmbra]

Ok I'm gonna try to make this short and sweet. I just want to say PGL is my favorite class, but what makes me angry is that, it feels like the Dev team buff's and nerfs PGL at the same time.

Example: They Buff Victimize for this patch and add an attack down debuff, but also add an 60 sec recast, I for one do not understand why this skill needs an 60 sec recast it seems utterly ridiculous to me for it have this long of a cool down. The other thing about Victimize is that we also have to hope mages can/will stick debuffs on mobs to get more damage from this weapon skill.

Next on the list is Simian Thrash, honestly I would rather them just delete this move from the game if they don't remove the retarded evade requirement to use it. The move is probably the strongest move in the game and we can not even utilize this move in combat(only solo), or in content because we are not the targets main focus, I can deal with the purple ball if you first remove the evade first.


I would like to hear other PGL players Opinion on this matter, I know that Simian Thrash has been touched on but we have not gotten a response about it.

Thanks for reading my rant lol.

Victimize II.... Considering PGL doesn't get TP at the rate of, say LNC, simply making good use of Keen Flurry can greatly assist in use of Victimize II.

Also, some people saying Doomspike II much stronger than Victimize II... it really makes me wonder where they are getting such info. It's either coming out from where the sun don't shine, or was perhaps tested on a mob resistant to blunt. Victimize II hits considerably harder than Doomspike II. Doomspike II has the benefit of being a column AoE, which brings out the most benefit.

As an example I'll use the Ifrit fight. On Ifrit my Victimize II often did 1k+ damage, reaching as high as just over 1200. This was with Raging Strike II, Ferocity II and Blindside II of course, and done on Ifrit's rear as a critical. In all the same buffs and placement as well as critical hit, highest I've done on Doomspike II is just over 900 - 902 if I remember correctly. Both done at 3k TP.

Now sure there's some gear difference to account for, but on LNC I have considerably higher attack power and STR while on PGL I have about double the crit potency on body. I would consider that more or less equal at best, with the edge still going to my LNC as far as damage output goes.

So burst damage-wise, Victimize II takes the cake. The only 2 skills I can say surpass it is Chaos Thrust done with 3k TP while target is under 20% health, or Simian Thrash done at 3k TP.

That brings me to Simian Thrash. I often hear the argument "We can't use the strongest WS in the game because it has an evasion requirement" to which I always present the should-be-obvious counter-argument that Simian Thrash is only so strong because it has such a specific requirement. It's an effective solo/offensive-tank tool. For a DD PGL the bread-and-butter WS is Victimize II. Having both meet the same purpose would be redundant as they are now.

[Physic]

Victimize II.... Considering PGL doesn't get TP at the rate of, say LNC, simply making good use of Keen Flurry can greatly assist in use of Victimize II.

Also, some people saying Doomspike II much stronger than Victimize II... it really makes me wonder where they are getting such info. It's either coming out from where the sun don't shine, or was perhaps tested on a mob resistant to blunt. Victimize II hits considerably harder than Doomspike II. Doomspike II has the benefit of being a column AoE, which brings out the most benefit.

As an example I'll use the Ifrit fight. On Ifrit my Victimize II often did 1k+ damage, reaching as high as just over 1200. This was with Raging Strike II, Ferocity II and Blindside II of course, and done on Ifrit's rear as a critical. In all the same buffs and placement as well as critical hit, highest I've done on Doomspike II is just over 900 - 902 if I remember correctly. Both done at 3k TP.

Now sure there's some gear difference to account for, but on LNC I have considerably higher attack power and STR while on PGL I have about double the crit potency on body. I would consider that more or less equal at best, with the edge still going to my LNC as far as damage output goes.

So burst damage-wise, Victimize II takes the cake. The only 2 skills I can say surpass it is Chaos Thrust done with 3k TP while target is under 20% health, or Simian Thrash done at 3k TP.

That brings me to Simian Thrash. I often hear the argument "We can't use the strongest WS in the game because it has an evasion requirement" to which I always present the should-be-obvious counter-argument that Simian Thrash is only so strong because it has such a specific requirement. It's an effective solo/offensive-tank tool. For a DD PGL the bread-and-butter WS is Victimize II. Having both meet the same purpose would be redundant as they are now.

im fairly certain crit potency is stronger than strength/attack from eyeballing current trends. maybe not overall, but it will definately take the cake on a buffed blindsided attack.

That said in any case its not that different, it may be even possible that it is in fact higher even with teh same gears.
but lancer has no cooldown on doomspike, and it hits multi targets, keen flurry essentially halves your victimize time, but a lancer can get tp for DS in about every 10-20 seconds. add to that that it is has a very long range, and hits everything between the target and it is completely and totally superior to victimize.

far as simian thrash, i agree it should have that type of requirement, however, we are behind mrd and lnc by not having a spammable high dmg skill that doesnt require some type of evasion.

So either they need to build us where we can actually tank some crazy stuff, or they need to give us some short cool down skill, or a skill that reduces/removes cooldowns like lancer.

[Akk]

Victimize deals piercing damage. (It says so in the tool-tip, at least.)

The reason your Victimize does so much more than your Doomspike is because of the crit attack power materia you have in your (exclusive) Pugilist body.

The reason people say Doomspike is better than Victimize is because Doomspike can be used 1.5x to 2x more than Victimize.

This isn't as much of an issue on "raid" fights like the Deepvoid Slave and Batraal because there are still ways to get evades/misses while in a DD role.

[NoctisUmbra]

No, I understand Doomspike II can be and often is the superior WS. I'm simply comparing the two on a single target damage basis.

What I do not agree with is the damage being higher solely due to the higher crit potency on body. The difference between my LNC and PGL in terms of crit potency is about 30. On LNC I have about 100 more Attack Power and 30-40 more STR. That effectively rules our 30 crit potency making up for ~30% more power on hit.

[Physic]

No, I understand Doomspike II can be and often is the superior WS. I'm simply comparing the two on a single target damage basis.

What I do not agree with is the damage being higher solely due to the higher crit potency on body. The difference between my LNC and PGL in terms of crit potency is about 30. On LNC I have about 100 more Attack Power and 30-40 more STR. That effectively rules our 30 crit potency making up for ~30% more power on hit.

that entirely depends on how crit potency works, and im telling you it seems like crit potency is way more effective way of boosting crit damage, which make perfect sense. because crits arent that common, for the materia to be compareable it has to have a greater effect when it does happen.

the dmg may be slightly more on victimize, but im pretty sure the crit potency is WAAAY more effective than the 100 attack for boosting crit damage.

[NoctisUmbra]

that entirely depends on how crit potency works, and im telling you it seems like crit potency is way more effective way of boosting crit damage, which make perfect sense. because crits arent that common, for the materia to be compareable it has to have a greater effect when it does happen.

the dmg may be slightly more on victimize, but im pretty sure the crit potency is WAAAY more effective than the 100 attack for boosting crit damage.

My PGL body has +66 crit potency. A friend's LNC has +71, on top of all the higher atk power and STR. Highest DS2 he ever did was just over 1k.. like 1003 or so. I've also had a friend with only +40~ crit potency report a 1400~ victimize 2. The base damage coefficient on Victimize II is considerably higher because it is only a single target and cannot be spammed as much.... which is why Keen Flurry is an amazing boost to PGL.