This game needs better DPS feedback

[_slowpoke_]

Now, I accept that there is a possibility that parsers cause harassment, but without any evidence or research, it's a bit unfair to say that they have caused harassment.

There is no possibility of parsers causing harassment, because a tool can't harass anyone. People using said tool can cause harassment, but as multiple people have pointed out, they can (and do) harass people without that tool. We don't need research for that, it's a plain illogical argument. The only thing that empiric research could show is whether there's a correlation between parsers and harassment, and if so, how strong it is. Even then, it would tell us nothing about parsers, but about people who use parsers, and as such what sort of measures we (or rather, SE) should take against these people and their actions (and not against parsers).

[missybee]

This is an extremely divisive issue that doesn't seem like it is going to be remedied any time soon.

That said, I still don't understand the adamant defense of poor/lazy play. When I go into an expert roulette, for instance, I hope to see DPS pulling more than you could pull 10 levels and over 100 item levels ago. What about that expectation is detracting from someone else's fun? So, if DPS X wants to go into a roulette and exclusively auto attack, their "fun and relaxation" is more important than that of the three other players in the group?

To reiterate, I don't think anyone against poor play is advocating for fully optimized, savage-level DPS. Hell, I am pretty sure that my rotation isn't as optimal as it could be. For me, I just would like for runs to feel like the other members of my party and/or alliance give a damn.

[Krissey]

That said, I still don't understand the adamant defense of poor/lazy play. When I go into an expert roulette, for instance, I hope to see DPS pulling more than you could pull 10 levels and over 100 item levels ago.

I ran a "Dusk Vigil" recently on my then 51 Dragoon in fresh ilvl 120 with a ilvl 115 HQ spear with my guild leader who was ilvl 217 in full Esoteric Dragoon gear + some (obviously) because I asked. I have screen shots of me doing over 100 more DPS than her at 10 levels less and around 100 less ilvl....

So...-face palm- How does one do so poorly?

Edit: I never say anything though. I just use it to make sure I'm doing okay. I want the highest numbers for my ilvl. I'm usually #1 DPS and if I get beat it just makes me want to try harder and learn my Dragoon even better. I'm still new to Dragoon's new rotation. I played back in 2.x when it was simple.

[Kaurie]

There is no possibility of parsers causing harassment, because a tool can't harass anyone. People using said tool can cause harassment, but as multiple people have pointed out, they can (and do) harass people without that tool. We don't need research for that, it's a plain illogical argument. The only thing that empiric research could show is whether there's a correlation between parsers and harassment, and if so, how strong it is. Even then, it would tell us nothing about parsers, but about people who use parsers, and as such what sort of measures we (or rather, SE) should take against these people and their actions (and not against parsers).

While I agree and strongly think that parsers do not cause harassment, I disagree that the entire argument is illogical. Just as they cannot come to a conclusion without research, neither can we. There is no evidence or research to support that adding a parser in increases (or decreases, or has no effect on) the likely hood that people will behave in a negative manner.

Parsers would not harass someone, but the information they provide may entice people to behave negatively - which is how they cause it.

Keep in mind that something causing an action does not need to actually do the action.


All of that said, I think the best way to phrase it would be to say, "I believe adding a parser will enable further toxicity among the playerbase."

[missybee]

So...-face palm- How does one do so poorly?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

I never say anything though. I just use it to make sure I'm doing okay. I want the highest numbers for my ilvl. I'm usually #1 DPS and if I get beat it just makes me want to try harder and learn my Dragoon even better. I'm still new to Dragoon's new rotation. I played back in 2.x when it was simple.

That's pretty much exactly how I use it. It's really nice to have the instantaneous feedback.

[odintius]

I don't know what can be done all I can suggest if people feel this strongly about having good people to do casual content don't use the duty finder solo qued and start up link shells or party finder and strictly do it from your pool of ppl from own server perhaps. Finding like mined people might help, one thing for sure this isn't a JP issue. /shrug

[Rivxkobe]

I was once with a level 60 Bard who used AoE skills from time to time on a single target, and she never used Wanderer's Minuet. ME and my brother (WHM) tried to explain to them that they shouldn't do that, because its a HUGE waste of TP and a MASSIVE waste of time and DPS potential. They ignored us, then complained that everything was taking to long to die.

_-_

I also got a Bard once when doing Ultima's Ballad who was level 60 (Level 60 legs/accessories) who was equipped with a lv. 48 Bow and who spammed Wide Volley and Venomous Bite all day. It was painful.

[Eydir]

I wouldn't mind something like a parser in the game which shows your own dps. Just to see where you stand. I had so many dps which apparently didn't know their rotation very well (I remember a Heavy Thrust->Ring of Thorns dragoon who strongly believed that this was his rotation) who won't listen when you explain them their combos (in a nice and polite manner).

I just experience too many who also just shrug when you mention encountering these people in e.g. Midas (normal) and say "as long as it dies it is fine" and "even a small river can take down a mountain". You won't. Not when that mountain has an enrage timer.