This game needs better DPS feedback

[whythehate]

Bad dps? Where? o.O
I mostly get people that dont care about mechanics, or dodge zones atks lol
I mean.. I feel like im the only 1 that knows how to ->stun<- enemys like Echidna(snake form) her wide zone atk.
Or NOT staying behind Cerberus 'cuz his tailswap is hard to dodge <,<

Just gonna leave this here

I guess people like you would call me "bad DPS" because when I play as Monk or Mechanic (both ilvl186) I dont ever use those ridicoules small 5% atk "boost" skills. (I call them: blank skills)
...or those annoying positional atks on monk/drg/nin <,< (why we have that anyway...?)

I also dont have that dragoon aura up for the whole time o_O that aura dont boost anything on stats, and those 4th cambo atks are pretty much weak! Only usefull for those 2 Jump atks. ...wich have same CD as the dragoon aura.

minuet/gauss is only for AoE usefull - very weak against 1 target! Its sad people using that skill totally wrong for 1 target =.=


With that "my own gameplay" I still kick asses around. :P
Never had complains in my over 2100 runs so far since release 2013!

[KaijinRhada]

Snip

My condolences. It always makes me wonder what people do to get that low, though perhaps the answer lies in them not doing much. ~_~

[Kaurie]

Just gonna leave this here

Holy... that has to be a troll post lol

[Aquaslash]

Just gonna leave this here

..or those annoying positional atks on monk/drg/nin <,< (why we have that anyway...?)

I also dont have that dragoon aura up for the whole time o_O that aura dont boost anything on stats, and those 4th cambo atks are pretty much weak! Only usefull for those 2 Jump atks. ...wich have same CD as the dragoon aura.

GTFO my class you lazy scrub REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN]

Just gonna leave this here

LOLOL, this is too good.

[Bobkitty]

Unless you're doing Savage or some new extreme primal, the game doesn't really punish you for bad DPS rates (except for slower runs, which isn't very noticeable to the person underperforming anyway, unless everyone in the group doing the same). You kill the boss, you roll your loot and your chances of getting an item is the same as everyone else, then you exit/repeat, so you aren't given any motivation or indicator that you should be doing better until you step into Savage etc.

There is the SSS thing, but it seems like only people who are getting into raiding would use it.

[raela]

I was in a sephirot ex clear party the other day, and one of the nin's commented that he was jealous of the rest of our dps. Checked his gear, mix of 220s/230s, 230 weapon, no melds.. So nothing overtly bad. Mention of DPS made me assume he ran a parser.

Friend checked his own after, and said nin was about 400 dps under the other 3 of us. He had glaring rotation errors (and never used his own trick attack). Having the tools (and internet to search rotations) won't always save you.

..we didn't clear anyway. hopefully he compared his data to the other nin for some tips. Parsers might be nice to have in game for some reasons, but it won't save everyone.

[Kaurie]

I was in a sephirot ex clear party the other day, and one of the nin's commented that he was jealous of the rest of our dps. Checked his gear, mix of 220s/230s, 230 weapon, no melds.. So nothing overtly bad. Mention of DPS made me assume he ran a parser.

Friend checked his own after, and said nin was about 400 dps under the other 3 of us. He had glaring rotation errors (and never used his own trick attack). Having the tools (and internet to search rotations) won't always save you.

..we didn't clear anyway. hopefully he compared his data to the other nin for some tips. Parsers might be nice to have in game for some reasons, but it won't save everyone.

I think you are misunderstanding the point. Parsers don't save people, they allow people to see they are underperforming. In your story, this is precisely what happened - that NIN saw that he was really low and now knows he needs to work on it. It's not a magical thing that saves people from being bad, it's a tool to help people understand their performance.

If a parser was made available at low levels to everyone, they'd get this feedback as they leveled up (the time when you are learning how to play), and then create positive DPS habits.

[FoxyAreku]

I was in a sephirot ex clear party the other day, and one of the nin's commented that he was jealous of the rest of our dps. Checked his gear, mix of 220s/230s, 230 weapon, no melds.. So nothing overtly bad. Mention of DPS made me assume he ran a parser.

Friend checked his own after, and said nin was about 400 dps under the other 3 of us. He had glaring rotation errors (and never used his own trick attack). Having the tools (and internet to search rotations) won't always save you.

..we didn't clear anyway. hopefully he compared his data to the other nin for some tips. Parsers might be nice to have in game for some reasons, but it won't save everyone.

I just want to point out that no one would have probably known how bad that NIN was doing without a parser, and now he probably knows he needs to improve because of it.

[Preypacer]

How to tell if you're doing well (DPS edition):
[ ] Are things that are supposed to die dying?
[ ] Are you using your cooldowns when you can and/or when it's appropriate?
[ ] Did you avoid all avoidable damage unless the healer/raid leader told you not to?
[ ] Did your group successfully complete the encounter?

If you're 4/4 on these, then congratulations! You're playing the game adequately, and no one has any right to tell you otherwise.


If you're not, then you need to work on your own gameplay.

There's so much more to being a good player than putting out good numbers. Putting out good numbers is a good thing, but I would much rather take someone who knows how to avoid AoE, or who plays their class to boost the rest of the group, than someone who's so fixated on their rotation that they die 50% of the time.

Great post/point. The thing is, many gamers these days - particularly in MMOs (in my experience) are obsessed with numbers. It's all about numbers. Everything is numbers.

Based on what I've seen I could well imagine some counter-points to your checklist (which I agree with) would be:
[ ] Are things that are supposed to die dying?
- "But they could have died faster if "so and so" was doing at least 500dps, which according to my parser they're not, which means they are not playing their class/role optimally (translated: "not up to my personal arbitrary standards which I'm convinced they are obligated to by virtue of being in a party with me, another player, picked randomly from a cross-server pool of players")

[ ] Are you using your cooldowns when you can and/or when it's appropriate?
"Yes, but are they using them at the optimal times (translated: When I, or some guide on the internet says they should) thus ensuring the best possible DPS? If not, then they're bads and need to "git gud", or not stay in my DF parties".

[ ] Did you avoid all avoidable damage unless the healer/raid leader told you not to?
The healer or raid leader should not have to explain the fights or what to do. That just wastes everyone's time because they have to take the time to explain something, which means the dungeon can take longer than it should (translated: "longer than I want it to"). You are supposed to watch videos before entering a dungeon so you know exactly what to do, even having never been in there before. If you haven't, then you're a bad and are being carried by everyone else"

[ ] Did your group successfully complete the encounter?
"Yes, but we should have done it faster. According to my parser - aka "God" - such-and-such role was not putting out optimal DPS. They were 50dps short of where they should have been, which means it was taking far too long for us to clear the dungeon. These "bads" need to "git gud" and "learn to play", because I'm tired of carrying them."

And by the by, those quotes are pretty much a mash-up of many, many such responses I've seen from some people for whom the game is all about numbers, and whom believe it should be for everyone else as well.

As for the OP, well, all the tools someone needs to learn and play as well as they'd like are available. It's not as though they're withheld from some players, and only available to others. At the end of the day, it boils down to a simple truth:
"Not everyone takes numbers as seriously as you do, nor are they obligated to because you happen to insist they should".

No one is obligated to meet anyone else's personal standards. It doesn't work that way.

Believe it or not, many people play these games for enjoyment, to relax, to have fun. They aren't concerned about whether their DPS output is "optimal" or whether they need to spend another hour fine-tuning their rotations, for the benefit of someone else's parser numbers. Put simply, all the preaching and derision over them being "bads" is not going to change how they play, because they simply don't care. They're not playing for the same reason as you, and how you think they should be playing is of no concern to them, nor should it be.

Fortunately FFXIV provides a perfectly good tool for people to gather exactly the kind of group you want to. It's called Party Finder.

If you're dead-set on playing with people who believe in playing at the absolute peak of what's possible, then you should seek out and group up with those people. Someone joins your group who isn't up to your requirements, etc? Kick them.

However, if you're going through Duty Finder, well, you have no control nor say over who's in there with you. The convenience of having the game do all the footwork for you means you're not always going to get your ideal group. Can't have your cake and eat it, too. Can't demand everyone else "raise their game" to your personal standard.